Gun shots at Dhaka; reverberations here

Blame it on a discredited political class.

Phew, the guns haven’t gone silent in Bangladesh yet and there are are murmurs of similar discontent in the Indian paramilitary forces being heard in the Indian media. The Telegraph highlights the issue of poor pay and promotion aspects in paramilitary forces vis-a-vis the army, a disproportionate number of senior ranks grabbed by IPS officers and a general feeling of neglect among the troopers in paramilitary forces here.

The genesis of the problem doesn’t lie in the largesse provided to the members of the defence services by the SCPC, but in the manner the final decision was arrived at. The complete gamut of public wrangling, creating pressure through the media, emotional blackmail and defiance by the defence services, for what they believed were their “genuine” demands  resulted in a perceived capitulation by the government. And perceptions, not the reality, determines actions. So, here are other similarly placed organisations  aping the successful approach of the defence services to press the government for what they perceive as their “genuine” demands. What we hear in the media today is a thinly veiled threat from the paramilitary forces. Perhaps, this is a not-so-ominous sign of things to come.

A correspondent approach to reservations for SC/ST, OBC, EBC etc. had fuelled similar grievances for competitive entitlement by various caste groups across the country. The litany of feckless actions over myriad social issues has completely eroded the credibility of  the political class in this country. The actions of the UPA government over the SCPC issue have only buttressed this belief of a lack of political will among the politicians in this country.

It will be interesting to see for how long the government can keep on giving in to various interest groups on their competitive entitlement. The tide of a fast-growing world economy, on which the boat of the Indian economy was sailing high, has subsided now. Can the Indian government still afford to continue with the same placatory tactics or will a denial lead to widening of fissures between various institutions of the state?

It is evident that no political party/ formation has the guts to honestly espouse the cause of governance, even when the general elections are upon us. See, it is far more comfortable for the political class to harp on peripheral issues of dynasty, aam admi and Ram mandir than to focus on substantive issues of governance, which will chart out this nation’s future. And the politicians will continue to have it easy as long as the civil society, and the media and commentators, fail to avoid the emotive and rhetorical trap of wily political leaders. Perhaps, it is high time the civil society identifies the issues that really matter to the nation and ask the politicians to come clean with their views on these subjects.


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38 Responses to Gun shots at Dhaka; reverberations here

  1. Swordarm February 26, 2009 at 5:45 pm #

    Prag, you are missing out an important point in the comparison you are trying to make out. In the case of the armed forces in India, it was the constituted heirarchy which raised the issue of anomalies, and did so in a legitimate manner through established channels. The fact that media played a role in support as well as against these ‘demands’ (on the behest of whom in either case is anybody’s guess) does not take away any legitimacy from the channel through which they were taken up, nor refute the fact that anomalies did exist.

    The mutiny in Bangladesh is exactly an antithesis of this, where the rank and file have struck against the established heirarchy since they do not have confidence in their abilities to address their grievances.

    The essential difference between the Indian armed forces and paramilitary forces (and also the BDR) is the chetwoodian values that are imbibed in the officers of the former. It is justifiable to be cynical of this in today’s environment, but even if a small minority of officers is still adhering to these notions, it is quite enough to keep the system from breaking down.

    The major problem with the paramilitary forces and CPOs out here is the same as that with BDR – that it is officered from outside. The IPS officers who populate the senior appointments do not have the kind of affiliation or bonding with the organisation or the men that an individual who has served within all his life would have. Catch any DG BSF / ITBP /NSG etc putting his career on line, in the way the services chiefs did, for the sake of their subordinates.

    It would be rather dramatic and probably an exaggeration to state that the actions of the chiefs precluded a Bangladesh like situation out here, but nevertheless, the damage to the overall morale and fabric of the forces would have been substantial if they had not done so.

  2. Adi February 26, 2009 at 8:07 pm #

    Indeed, the error into which you have fallen is that you have got the story backwards. False goading by the civil services of the CPO’s against the armed forces has caused discontent.

    The motivated and sheer selfserving brinksmanship is breathtaking to behold, to say the least.

    While in the 5th pay commission, Commandants of the CPO’s were paid LESS than Lt. Colonels, they still wore FULL COLONELS rank badges. An error, in the first place. It gave them the false feeling that they were equitable to colonels.

    When the 6th CPC came along, a drama was played out, wherein the Committee of Secretaries downgraded Full colonels pay grade from what it was (equivalent to DIGP), to equivalent to DCP’s and CPO commandants.

    This in itself is the cause of discontent in the armed forces. And when they tried to get it fixed, regrettably, sites such as this were used to lie openly about what the true position was. Giving CPOs the feeling that they had been hard done bye.

    Who wins? The enemy.

  3. jo February 26, 2009 at 10:39 pm #

    I think it is a mistake to liken the personnel serving the Armed Forces to the Para military force. This has happened due to undue involvement of our army personnel in CI ops – a necessity considering the sophistication of terrorists – and, compounded by the lack of preparedness of police forces to tackle the same.

    Actually Prag I think you should strongly push for a Blue Ribbon commission for policing including policing by PMF, so that the Defence Forces are not forced to do what Police is required to do, thereby avoiding unnecessary comparison between forces that are required to bear by definition, totally different burdens. One is required to fight internal unrest whereas the other is required to win wars and control unrest with brutal force when it is beyond the control of the administration incl PMF. They both work in tandem for the security of the nation and any efforts to pitch one against the other is like cutting your nose to spite your face.

    The comparison and perceived equivalence between the two is unjust and unwarranted both to the Defence Forces and the PMF. Defence Forces have their issues and PMF, theirs. Don’t link the two.

    Both are different types of arrows in the quiver of the government and need to be used to complement national aims.

    They are both doing a great job of securing the interests of the nation whilst the nation develops economically and socially.

    Considering what has happened in SWAT and in Dacca I am very pleased by the what the country has achieved in national security. Out security institutions are apolitical at least at the federal level, they are bashing the hell out of the bad guys and doing so at a fraction of the cost of other developing or developed countries.

    I am also happy about the deep respect and awe the constitution enjoys and how speaker of Loksabha (in not resigning when he was expelled from his party), Supreme Court (in throwing out lousy legislations) and even Pranab Mukherjee (in passing a tepid but constitutionally correct interim budget) uphold it.

    I think India is going to go places in the future because people believe in the idea of a strong India. All institutions have their own peculiar set of problems as seen in the RTI about AWWA or for that matter dilution of gallantry awards or corruption in judiciary and policing or cash for votes scandal or turf wars between organisations.

    This is normal in the growth of a country, but when you weigh it all on a balance positives far outweigh the negatives – I think Indians love their country and they want to see it become a great power.

    We are basically destined for glory however some people miss out the ‘l’ and see only a gory future ahead.

    Problems being faced by our institutions including those highlighted by this Blog are but small blemishes which will count for nothing much once the portrait of a magnificent and glorious portrait of India is completed on the not yet appealing ‘work in progress’ canvas

  4. VIGILANTI February 27, 2009 at 2:15 pm #

    @Pragmatic: Off the topic comment.

    Was saddened to see the ‘Advani for PM’ ad on your website. I don’t expect you to be apolitical, but your choice is surprising and I am a little distressed with your political bent. BJP/ Advani stand for everything that this country’s citizens should endeavour to NOT be… fundamentalist, facist and narrow-minded.

    I respect this website for its ‘pragmatism’ and maturity. Hence the sadness..

    • Pragmatic February 27, 2009 at 2:18 pm #


      As a blog owner, you know very well how Google Adsense works. These are automatically generated ads by Google and have nothing to do with the blog. Let me reiterate that I have no political affiliations which I wear on my sleeve.

  5. Real Moderates don\'t Play Favorites. . . February 28, 2009 at 9:28 am #

    @ Vigilanti:

    I will never understand how people like you – who call the NDA names and purport to be secular and progressive – can repeat these claims time after time, even after they have been soundly debunked. Many times, on Prag’s roster, I have seen matrimonial websites for Indian Muslims – surely as a secular, you would contest these ads appearing as well?

    As far as BJP or LKA being fundamentalist, I’d like to request you for an example when they have acted in such a manner. If you are referring to the blindly-cited Godhra riots, don’t forget that they began with Muslim aggression on 60-odd hapless Hindu pilgrims, that Muslim casualties were barely substantially larger than Hindu casualties. Furthermore, as far as the legal issues go, Modi was cleared by Nanavati, and news reports today continue to uncover incidences where Muslim women were paid to “report” anecdotes of rape and Hindu aggression to fuel media “news.” Modi’s stellar record – praised by those of all religions in Gujarat – speaks for itself. Further, if you’re talking about LKA’s Babri incident, don’t forget that Babri was built by destroying Hindu temples during Mughal periods of aggression, much like Taj Mahal. What is truly disturbing here is Indian Muslims’ sense – even moderate or supposedly ‘secular’ Muslims, see Farzana Versey’s blog – of entitlement to the “conquered properties” of India as Muslims of a hydra-headed pan-Islamic body, rather than sentiments and actions more befitting of Muslims who love and want to live in India peacefully.

    Also, if by fascist and narrow-minded, you mean a desire to thrown down these structures that represent Islamic rule – that are effectively India’s Berlin Walls, then BJP and LKA are guilty as charged. If UPA – which I’m going to take a wild guess and venture to say you see as more secular – is your idea of neutral, with its subsidization of minority (read:Muslims) pilgrimages by removing money donated by Hindus to their temples, then you have a very skewed sense of secular.

    I have always marvelled at how Indians generally contextualize religion and governance in the subcontinent. This is a land where religion ruled supreme, and justly so, for over 4000 years. Not until recently, a few hundred years ago, with the arrival of a foreign religion, did the question of religion as distinct from governance, ever arise in Indian region. And even then, it arose due to discrimination, and not for any other substantive reason. From a glance at this period, when religion first was seen as a hindrance in effective governance (re: jizya, etc.), we can compare Mughal rulers and those of Hindu rulers like Chhatrapati Shivaji. Discrimination was rife in one regime, and non-existent in the other. Extend these comparisons across time, and across India’s entire geographical span, and you will observe that India has only been ‘truly secular’ during rule of one “state religion.” Partition and the creation and development of these two polar societies only enhances my argument. Democracy is possible in India because India is secular, yes – but WHY is India secular, as opposed to fundamentalist (in one direction or the other)? Because it effectively chose to embrace the values endemic to one too ranking of socio-cultural/ethical views by Indian society. And the converse of this is true of India’s neighboring failed state. Thus, India is secular solely because it is a “Hindu” state. Perhaps the one fatal flaw in India’s coming-of-age at independence was a reluctance to enshrine this legally in the Constitution, this might have made GoI more proactive in defanging the Islamist groups growing in India today!

    [If you jump in to say Malegaon here, I'd argue that this a form of democratic protest exercised by a majority that has effectively been structurally written out of the political system, let alone able to effectively advocate for itself. Inexcusable because of its violence, yes, but after GoI's inability to not only defend it's national borders, but stop 2 genocides, and thoroughly botch domestic issues as well, what can you expect? Guaranteed, this amount of protest is at the minimal scale when compared to what other nations experience - see the amount of protesting in France and US right now, and that too 'only' because of the possibility of losing jobs!]

    Finally – and this is my own statement in defense of Prag – if you expect someone to be pragmatic and mature, that involves presenting all the sides of an issue and bolstering the most rational to rise to the top. (as Prag does) I think your blog, with its one lone partisan pink chaddis post, might benefit from some posts on Congress state and centre failures in preventing Mumbai, or downgrading of the Indian economy by ratings groups worldwide, or any such of a plethora of issues that are facing the entirety of Indian society today, instead of targeting what a political party’s fringe group (which centre groups often do not have solid control over) has done – unfortunately, the same cannot be said of UPA’s gross oversights.

    Waiting eagerly to hear back from you or someone who can argue your line, and sorry for the long post!!

  6. Navdeep February 28, 2009 at 11:39 am #


    I successfully blocked political ads from my site.

    Go to adsense setup after perusing the help section and bingo !

    • Pragmatic February 28, 2009 at 2:49 pm #


      Thanks. Let me also give it a try.

  7. sandeep February 28, 2009 at 6:52 pm #

    @ Real Moderates don\’t Play Favorites.

    Boss, i think u r way off line here. I doubt if any one cares what NDA is doing or what CONG is doing.

    Here we are just concerned about settling the affairs of the world and that too purely based on the money aspect, like pay,perks, privileges, pensions, CSD, AWWA, grand strategy and the like. This also sometimes includes civilian bashing – but purely based on professional conduct . There is no discussion based on the Caste or religion basis.

    Boss – even Vigilanti commented about one person, and u are trying to put poison here.

    If I would have been atheist I would have told you to shove both the Mandir and Masjid (and if u care – then for all the other faiths also) up where – it belongs and shut up.

  8. Raja March 1, 2009 at 2:32 am #

    @ Real Moderates don\’t Play Favorites

    “If you jump in to say Malegaon here, I’d argue that this a form of democratic protest exercised by a majority that has effectively been structurally written out of the political system, let alone able to effectively advocate for itself. Inexcusable because of its violence, yes, but after GoI’s inability to not only defend it’s national borders, but stop 2 genocides, and thoroughly botch domestic issues as well, what can you expect? ”

    What books do you read, Sir?
    Veer Savarkar and Mein Kampf?

  9. Dr K Prabhakar Rao March 2, 2009 at 9:51 pm #

    Dear readers,

    Outr country is already in great turmoil with caste politics, agitations, pay anomolies, interservices squabbling, never ending comparison of services with IAS /IPS guys and now paramilitary squabbles are coming up after Dhaka massacres. BDR has killed many of its officers and it is a shame for the nation. Behavior of BDR as an undisciplined force is not new. few years ago it abducted Indian BSF jawans and killed them most inhmanly. They gouged out their eyes, skinned them , Cut off the ears, put them in boiling water and tied the dead to ploes and carried them off like dead cattle. This shows how poorly the country is being governed. This could be the beginining for another army coup in Bagladesh. Such actions can send jitters in Indian polity too as we also have sizeable Para military forces. Some time ago CRPF unit revolted and army disarmed them. Memories are not far away. Keep fingers crossed.The stocks are same in both countries.In this connection please read followng sattire too:-



    Prof Dr Colonel K Prabhakar Rao (Retired)

    (It is Bangladesh border and Border Security Force (BSF) post is very alert. Across the fence, the Jawans of Bangladesh Rifles (BDR) are very active and there is great movement among them. BSF Jawans Narayan and Laxman are manning the machine gun post)

    Narayan. Laxman look! Today we find BDR Jawans very active. They are listening to the radio very frequently. There must be some problem

    Laxman. I heard in Indian news that there is great trouble in Bangladesh. BDR Jawans have mutinied. They have taken their officers mostly their commanders as captives and killed many of them. Most of these officers are from army.

    Narayan. Raam. Raam.. What a tragedy indeed? Why they have done?

    Laxman. I think there is a problem on pay hikes. The Jawans feel that officers did not bother to fight for the pay and perks of the Jawans. The officers are allegedly selfish( Within himself.. How about ours?)

    Narayan. I think the BRD is undisciplined too. Some time ago they captured Indian BSF Jawans and killed them in very cruel manner.

    Laxman. I know. They gouged out eyes and they were put in boiling water. The dead bodies were suspended to poles like they carry dead cows. Very sad indeed! If Gandhi is alive today he must surely feel sad for creating Bangladesh by us in 1971. It is better they were hammered by Pakistanis as done earlier when it was East Pakistan.

    (Suddenly there is a flash of light and MKGandhi appears on the scene with his usual gait and stick.. In the back ground, Ramdhun, Raghupathi raaghava raja Ram is heard.)

    Gandhi.. Hello Boys! What is the matter? You remembered me. So I am here

    Narayan. Sir! Who are you? Why are you in this funny and strange dress?

    Gandhi. I am Bapu, MK Gandhi. Your Father of Nation. ( sings doing fast jig)

    I am the great Gandhi and Bapu
    And I get worked up at the word Babu
    I was very popular once up on a time
    Now my memory is faded like rotten lime

    My name is used for catching only votes
    Rest of the time the leaders are busy with currency notes
    After the elections god cares for my statues
    While the leaders make cock and bull statutes

    Laxman. Nice to see you sir. Look in Bangladesh, BDR Jawans have mutinied. They killed their own officers.

    Gandhi. Why so ? Are they so undisciplined? Any how in most of the Islamic countries discipline in army is poor. There are many mutinies and coups too.

    Laxman. Haa….haa.. Well said. It is rather truth.

    Gandhi. India is lucky in this regard. Indian army and other paramilitary forces are much better. I was told that there was so much unhappiness over recent pay commission and other anomalies compared to civil services and paramilitary forces. But they swallowed everything and lumped down the throats. They are all good disciplined people believing that army guys should lump it down the throat all the injustices done to them all these years. That is a good soldiers trait.

    Laxman. Bapu. One can not generalize. I was told that before independence was granted to us, naval ratings mutinied in Bomabay.That put Englishmen in jitters.

    Narayn. Look Bapu!. Even the troops which joined Indian National Army (INA) of Subhas Chandra Bose in Japan were looked up on with suspicion. They were considered probably as mutineers by English men. So Bapu ! Do not come to hasty conclusion. There is much ahead in India to be seen.

    ( Suddenly, there is a great flash and Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose in full INA uniform appears while the marshal music of INA is heard in the back ground. Subhas goose steps in German Army style)

    (Laxman Jumps out of the machine gun pit looking astonished)

    Laxman. Sir ! who are you? I never saw you earlier. I think I saw your photographs in books.

    Gandhi. Hello. Subhas. Welcome. How are you? I am seeing you after long time.

    Subhas. Yes Bapu. Once I left India and went to Germany I had no contact with Indian leaders like you and Nehru. Any how you guys never liked my ways and my going to Germany and joining axis powers.

    Gandhi. But I appreciate your love for motherland and the sacrifices you made for the country.

    Subhas. Thanks Bapu. But some senior guys in congress party must have felt highly relieved when my death was reported immediately after WW II. For them ,a great rival has gone away.

    Bapu. No comments Subhas

    Subhas. Look! Mr Narayan. I do not know what you are at? You are trying to project INA soldiers as mutineers. Better keep quiet. What you know about history and freedom movement? You have not seen perils of British rule in India. You are just kids. Better behave.

    Narayan. I only gave my opinion.

    Subhas. It is better to keep your opinion to yourself and do not malign others.

    Gandhi. Forget guys. Subhas leave him. After all he is a kid.

    ( In the mean time few shots are heard in BDR post and after some time the soldiers throw out the bodies of officers out of the post. Some of the Jawans run out and gouge out eyes of the victims and cut ears.)

    Laxman. Look! Bapu! They have killed their officers. See ! How cruel they are? There is a mutiny here also. Soon they would skin the dead.

    Narayan. (Listens to radio) Bapu. BDR has revolted in all districts of Bangladesh. Probably they killed most of the officers. What a crime! Can we call it a force really? Very bad indeed.

    Gandhi. You guys are very lucky in India. We are more disciplined.

    Subhas. All is not that simple. Some years ago CRPF battalion revolted in India too. Army had to disarm them subsequently. One major was also killed in action. Army has also has sown its fangs on some occasions in Agra and Navy in Vizag. All is not that well. It is a boiling cauldron.

    Bapu. I know it. It is just bad handing that resulted in such unlawful acts.

    Subhas. True.

    Gandhi. Probably I may help Bangladeshis a bit. Better I go there and do some counseling

    Subhas. Haa..haaa. … Bapu. Who will listen to you now? They did not listen to you even when country was partitioned. There were scores of riots and killings in Bengal. Any how it is your headache. I am off. You have your own fad. Do whatever you like as usual as done before partition of Indian sub continent. There is no point in advising you.

    ( Subhas walks off goose stepping while marshal music is heard)

    Gandhi. Boys. It is time I go to Bangladesh and make them see reason

    ( Gandhi vanishes and lands up in Dhaka the capital of Bangla desh. On the road Tanks are seen roaming. Army Jawans are seen patrolling. Some firing is also heard. They see Gandhi)

    Jawan. Hey old man! Who are you? What are you roaming for? Do not know that curfew has been imposed in city?

    Gandhi. I am not aware. I do not belong to this place. I am from India

    Jawan. Do you have valid documents for travel like Visa and pass port

    Gandhi. No. I do not need one. I am already a dead man

    Jawan. Then you need to be arrested ( He calls his officer)

    Gandhi. Call him. I am not scared

    ( In the mean time an army officer arrives)

    Officer. What is the matter? Who are you old man?

    Jawan. Sir ! He has entered our country without any valid papers.

    Officer. Eee…eee. .. Are you a smuggler or spy.? Come on tell me! ( He tried to handcuff Gandhi. He is unable to touch Gandhi)

    Gandhi. ( Laughs) Haa….haa… You are a Stupid man. You can not touch me. I am already dead. Mine is a divine body

    Officer. Nonsense .( within himself…Any ho I must keep away from this guy)

    Gandhi. Look Officer! Your BDR Jawans revolted and killed their officers that were mostly army officers including a Major General. How strange is that your Prime Minister declared general amnesty for the revolting men if the gave up arms and withdrew to barracks.

    Officer. I know. At that time these killings were not known

    Gandhi. Now what will happen? Will these murders be condoned? If in India probably they would have been also given some Ashok Chakra

    Officer. How can it be? The killers have to be punished. But there was great delay in deploying army to disarm the BDR Jawans.

    Gandhi. Look. So many of your officers were killed. Will you accept this if the Jawans are left off?

    Officer. We have to see what happens?

    Gandhi. Why the situation has come to that level? Does BDR think it is supreme? Does it think it can get away from your law?

    Officer. Hope if there is some law in this country. Remember How Mujib Ur Rehman was killed by our people

    Gandhi. Heee….heee…..haa…haa.. At last you have realized. I feel bad for Mujib.

    Officer. Your country appears more organized and disciplined. Your paramilitary forces appear to be unlike BDR

    Gandhi. Thank God for a good compliment. Hope it continues to be.
    ( In the mean time a Tank rolls bye, firing with a machine gun… People start running this way and that way while some fall dead.. Gandhi hides behind a tree.)

    Gandhi. Officer! What happened now? Why the tank is firing?

    Officer. I think now there is a mutiny by army. There has been a coup

    (A jeep passes- by announcing. From loud speaker a voice blares out,

    “Listen,,,,Listen…angladeshis.There has been an army coup and Present government has been dismissed. Constitution has been scrappedand burnt. Army Chief has taken over the country and all people should remain calm. Marshal Law has been enforced. All BDR Jawans have been rounded up. The force BDR has been disarmed and the entire force has been scrapped and all members of it have been dismissed. In future there will not be any BDR. All the killings will be investigated and the killers will be hanged to lamp posts publicly. All International airports have been closed. All people should remain indoors. President and Prime Minister and cabinet ministers have been put behind bars. Be careful. Rumor mongers will be summarily shot”

    Officer. Thank God! Atlast, the army has become bold. What nonsense indeed? A Paramilitary force kills scores of army officers commanding them and the government watches them giving amnesty?

    Gandhi. Eee…eeee… I am very unhappy at army rule in the country. It will not solve the problem. I must raise my voice.. ( Shouts) down…down… Army rule down… down…

    Officer. Hey old man! Shut up. In what way you are concerned? Go back to your country.( Sings)

    Go back dirty ill clad man
    You appear black and dark tan
    What we do is none of your business
    Although we may finally do great mess

    Gandhi. Haa…haaa. No. I shall do dharna ( Protest sitting) here right now

    ( Gandhi squats on the road spreading his legs. Some soldiers come that way. They see Gandhi)

    Soldier. Hey ! Get up from here

    Gandhi. No.. I am protesting over army take over

    Soldier. You are a nut. Who will bother for you? Go away or I have to but a bullet in you.

    ( Gandhi laughs and gets up and does a fast jig and sings)

    Look Oh! Dear rifleman
    You look like a China man
    I shall not go from here
    You may hang yourself, Oh my dear!

    You guys have no rule of law
    Some how are living with many a flaw
    Look! your troops go berserk
    What they need is a mighty kick

    (The soldiers get annoyed with Gandhis song and try to kick him. Gandhi looks at them and gestures with anger like Mandrake the magician and the soldiers are thrown off the ground like feathers. They fly and fall in a heap at a distance of ten feet. All of them are incapacitated by multiple fractures.)

    Gandhi. Look guys! You people appear to be mad. Maintain some discipline and run the country or soon you will all vanish.

    (Gandhi vanishes and reaches Indian border post where he is welcomed with a cup of goats milk)

  10. sandeep March 3, 2009 at 8:08 am #

    @ Dr Rao
    Dear Sir,
    Actually it is not your problem. You have been taught to gain mileage from a person who is still an inspiration to a whole lot of people. You may have heard of Martin Luther’s Son visit recently.
    You may not even be knowing that Gandhi is presently “Father of the nation”. And I think till next parliament convenes and passes a unanimous resolution to appoint Dr Rao to that post – he would still be there.

    coming to brasstacks – I think u are not aware that BSF men who got killed – were in Bangladesh territory – extorting money and raping women there – i.e. how ur brave jawans were doing their duty. And villagers got togather and finished them when they exceeded their limits. i.e. why that enquiry was never made public.
    So next time – u refer to that incident – pl be aware that those ppl were not brave soldiers who were carted from their post and pushed deep into B’desh to protect their country.
    And may i request that to avoid further disgracing the rank – which u r still holding on – that u avoid these caricatures of national icons. Or better still – please make a caricature of prophet mohammed and put it here. Then u would exactly find – how gandhi drank goat’s milk…

  11. Eats Shoots and leaves March 3, 2009 at 9:47 am #

    be kind to dot/vint_age ji

  12. Karthik March 3, 2009 at 6:45 pm #

    @ Pragmatic ————— “for what they believed were their “genuine” demands resulted in a perceived capitulation by the government.”—–

    It is a mistake to bring the issue of pay for the Armed Forces on the same platform as SC/ST Resv and any comparision with Paramilitary Forces is illogical. The fact of the matter is that the absence of a professional officer corps of the Paramilitary is the reason for their comparitive unprofessionalism and lack of projection (for the SCPC etc). Although I may diverge from the topic here, the kind of infrastructure and training made avaliable to the BSF/ CRPF is rather pitiful, considering their permanent deployment in forward areas. Thus, the responsibility has to be fixed on the present officer cadre of these PMFs. Coincidentally, this same cadre also officers the State Police forces, the competance of which was seen in the Aarushi case, 26/11 case…et al. Where are the recommendations of the Verappa Moily Police Reforms committee ?
    I sense here in your post, prag, an attempt to veil the real issue of the failings of the IPS cadre. It’s not a blame game, but this cadre had repeatedly failed to measure up in it’s professional punch. The demands of the Armed Forces were not rhetoric. They were extremely well founded and have not yet been completely addressed. The way out has to the professionalisation of the PMFs to a larger extent to what they are today. This includes upgradation of their response capability as well as an examination of any of their outstanding pay demands.The pressures of the economy pale in comparision to the damage potential of Anti National elements such as Naxals as well as our worthy neighbours.
    To conclude, don’t drag the Army into this murk by accusing it of strong arm tactics. It’s already a National Shame that the Armed Forces even had to ask time and again. I can understand your vested loyalties, but you may re-examine your phraseology when you post. The Army is above the PMFs in terms of it’s responsibility and competance. But I fully agree with your view that a lot devolves on Civil society and the judiciary, since the politicos are the greatest enemy from within. What about the responsibility of the IAS? After all, it is they who run the show from backstag. Again, Prag, you skirt this issue quite cleanly, but the Army remains a scapgoat, does’nt it?
    When will we ever learn………………….

  13. Dr K Prabhakar Rao March 5, 2009 at 9:41 pm #

    Dear Karthik

    Youclaim that BSF jawans in fact misbehaved with women folk of Bangladesh and hence were abducted and brutally killed by BDR and that India therefore did not pursue the action.BSF head quarters i s best one to answer such allegations. As per all news paper reports and various articles there was none of that sort.Secondly you feel that Gandhi is no more the father of nation. Then who is the person? Hope You are not. I am not interested to become either. Every one knows that MK Gandhi continues to the father of nation. Your saying does not make him a common man. Some people are of the opinion that they are the wisest persons on the earth while all others are dubious. In fact it is other way. Your out burst shows intolerance and intolerance leads to anger, frustration, loss of humility, loss of menatl balance and they crave for some revenge and mudslinging. People must pardon such guys and pray for their well being and return of some balance that has been lost.Some guys feel that retired service officers will be disgracing their ranks if they tell truth and probabaly they expect bootlicking which they have been doing while in service whether it is in army or civil life. In civil life also bootlicking is predominanat and it is not the prerogative of uniformed persons in the form of discipline. I shall pray for such imbalanced persons and return for the sanity. Such persons can not appreciate humour in life and tend to be saddists too. Society is seriously damaged by such men. A person devoid of humor is no person infact. Therfore one must feel sorry for such poor and ill informed creatures and pray to god that they are bestowed with some sanity atleast in next life.Do not throw stones at others sitting in a glass case. That explains it best.
    Dr K Prabhakar Rao

  14. sandeep March 6, 2009 at 8:17 am #

    @ Dr Rao

    I think u r trying to obfuscate the issue. What many ppl in BSF who are near B’desh border do is not a matter of conjecture.
    Do u know – that BSF boys were delivered on bamboo poles – hung like a barbecue – by BDR ppl. Ofcourse they must have been in B’desh and that is why their dead bodies needed to be delivered. If they would have been inside India – do u think the BDR ppl would have come.
    Now – what were these guys doing in B’desh. Obviously if there was some border issue – then lot of ppl in Delhi would have known. Quite obviously – it was local issue. Now u can draw ur own conclusions or do an RTI and ask for the inquiry report.
    Second, issue of Mahatma Gandhi. Every country and culture, religion has an iconic figure. Gandhi is for India what Lincoln is to US or Lenin to Russia.

    Using him as a caricature image with his particular belief system and trashing them should not be done by anyone, much less by a person who spent his life in service of the Govt .
    And then justifying it as humour is pure trash. Use of imagination and ideas of free speech can not be a justification for ridiculing an icon who is source of inspiration to many across the world.
    Einstein (Scientist) had this to say about Gandhi “It would be difficult for future generation to believe that such a man walked on this earth in flesh and blood.”
    I do not know what your achievements in life have been. But if they would have been anywhere near Gandhi – then I would have heard ur name outside of forum.

  15. Ramani March 6, 2009 at 8:26 am #

    Like the Navy has been given paramount responsibility for our coastal safety, I feel that the Army should also be given similar responsibility for our land borders.To be effective the BSF should be either placed under the Army or else merged with the same.
    Right now in case of any hostilities, the BSF withdraws , Army takes over and so on and on.
    This needs a lot of rethinking as definetely a lot feathers will be ruffled.

  16. Dr K Prabhakar Rao March 7, 2009 at 9:11 pm #

    Dear readers

    Thanks for comments. God bless you

    Dr K Prabhakar Rao

  17. sandeep March 8, 2009 at 12:03 pm #

    @ Ramani

    Here is where u make the mistake.
    No doubt defence of country is important, but make sure where it is important. Can u afford or even make India a poilce stateo or an army real estate as u r proposing to make.

    I in my IMHO u can not. Gurading of coast is actually CG’s responsibility. It is headed by a Navy officer – (mind u many times the crib is that BSF or NSG is not headed by armed forces) – then ultimately responsibility comes on Navy. Then what is coast guard for.

    Coast guard i n my opinion is to extract maximum juice out of our skins – by paying taxes on everything we buy, so that they can enjoy ….

    Then u propose all the civil services also to come under Army – so that whatever juice is left out of us can be extracted by other govt agencies.

    Why not just simply declare martial law – like Pakistan does or Bangladesh does – so that we know that after extracting juice – the defence services will not just fart away the extract, but also make a deal with Taliban, JIM, IM, and others.

    In an nut shell – we would like to see – where the bastardliness will end. Will it end with Taliban or with state sponsored agencies.

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