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	<title>Comments on: The Army should respond immediately</title>
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	<description>Beyond offensive defence</description>
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		<item>
		<title>By: realistic</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11120</link>
		<dc:creator>realistic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11120</guid>
		<description>&quot;Purohit said he had been hung upside down from a rod and his hands were tied to two poles due to which he has lost sensation from his wrist to his fingers.&quot;
http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2008-11-25/486296news.html
If these reports are true, then Army should respond immediately!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Purohit said he had been hung upside down from a rod and his hands were tied to two poles due to which he has lost sensation from his wrist to his fingers.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2008-11-25/486296news.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2008-11-25/486296news.html</a><br />
If these reports are true, then Army should respond immediately!</p>
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		<title>By: ashok</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11114</link>
		<dc:creator>ashok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11114</guid>
		<description>What is so &quot;mind boggling&quot; about the army keeping mum on the issue of Purohit when the police is investigating the case??? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is so &#8220;mind boggling&#8221; about the army keeping mum on the issue of Purohit when the police is investigating the case???</p>
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		<title>By: menon</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11099</link>
		<dc:creator>menon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11099</guid>
		<description>Now that the ATS leaks are being pooh-pahed, they have now got in the CBI to start leaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that the ATS leaks are being pooh-pahed, they have now got in the CBI to start leaking.</p>
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		<title>By: menon</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11087</link>
		<dc:creator>menon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11087</guid>
		<description>Even the Pakis know that the Madame has been compromised. 
Read &lt;a href=&quot;http://dailymailnews.com/200810/31/dmcolumnpage.html &quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; 

This Italian Honeypot may be a plant by some vested intelligence agencies. First she gets the Heir entangled, then wipes out the Heir apparent, erases the Mother-inlaw and then her Hubby to finally get to the fortress of power aided by immoral &amp; wily bureaucrats and politicians. 

Now she demoralises the Armed Forces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even the Pakis know that the Madame has been compromised.<br />
Read <a href="http://dailymailnews.com/200810/31/dmcolumnpage.html " rel="nofollow">here</a> </p>
<p>This Italian Honeypot may be a plant by some vested intelligence agencies. First she gets the Heir entangled, then wipes out the Heir apparent, erases the Mother-inlaw and then her Hubby to finally get to the fortress of power aided by immoral &amp; wily bureaucrats and politicians. </p>
<p>Now she demoralises the Armed Forces.</p>
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		<title>By: murty</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11083</link>
		<dc:creator>murty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11083</guid>
		<description>I dont understand why such a fuss is being created by all,withrespect to Lt.Col.purohit&#039;s case.When it  is handed over to the Army it deals with it as apropriate as as it deserves.There is no instance where Army man is proved of guilty of charge was ever left un-punished.What did Nehru do in case of Nanvati case,he left the Naval officer.There was hardly any case where a General officer was ever Court Marshalled,earlier.He used to be simply asked to putup his papers and leave the Army.Where as now the General officers also are also never being spared,If the offence is proved.While for the same kind of offence commited by a civilian,officer or a politician,or his son or relatives or his goons no punishment at all.We dont know the reasons for not hanging Afzal guru, in spite of supreme court&#039;s verdict.We also donot know what happend to all those accused, who were sentenced to death in 1993 Bombay blast case. We also do not know the progress of Bangaluru ,Ahemadabad ,and Delhi and other blast cases.This kind of partisan attitude to wards a particular majority community is instigating them to go in for similar acts of retalliation (if at all what the government says is correct of Hindu terrorism).Let the government do not resort to encouraging such acts and bring in gloom to the entire country.Just for few votes of certain community, the ruling party can not hurt the feeling of another (majority) community,by being a silent spectator while they are subjected to the exreme acts of terrorism.The ruling party should know that they will be loosing the votes of majority community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont understand why such a fuss is being created by all,withrespect to Lt.Col.purohit&#8217;s case.When it  is handed over to the Army it deals with it as apropriate as as it deserves.There is no instance where Army man is proved of guilty of charge was ever left un-punished.What did Nehru do in case of Nanvati case,he left the Naval officer.There was hardly any case where a General officer was ever Court Marshalled,earlier.He used to be simply asked to putup his papers and leave the Army.Where as now the General officers also are also never being spared,If the offence is proved.While for the same kind of offence commited by a civilian,officer or a politician,or his son or relatives or his goons no punishment at all.We dont know the reasons for not hanging Afzal guru, in spite of supreme court&#8217;s verdict.We also donot know what happend to all those accused, who were sentenced to death in 1993 Bombay blast case. We also do not know the progress of Bangaluru ,Ahemadabad ,and Delhi and other blast cases.This kind of partisan attitude to wards a particular majority community is instigating them to go in for similar acts of retalliation (if at all what the government says is correct of Hindu terrorism).Let the government do not resort to encouraging such acts and bring in gloom to the entire country.Just for few votes of certain community, the ruling party can not hurt the feeling of another (majority) community,by being a silent spectator while they are subjected to the exreme acts of terrorism.The ruling party should know that they will be loosing the votes of majority community.</p>
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		<title>By: menon</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11047</link>
		<dc:creator>menon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11047</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t it weird that the BHP has spoken out for the Sadhvi whereas the Services have abandoned Purohit. 
The Govt of the day is at its election best trying anhhilate its opponents. Even to the extent of trying to create a ham fisted rift by leaking a story about an assaniation plot of RSS leaders. Each one doing it to his enemy - The Congress bringing dishonour to the BJP and the babus doing it to the Armed Forces. The BJP and the Military have been the target of a disinformation and vilification campaign for quite some time and needs to be checked. 

On the lighter side Pragmatic has got subject matter for his blogs with each attack.

Every crime has a motive so why did the so alleged mastermind choose Malegaon when other cities have greter strike value? Seems fishy like the Govt trying to soft soap an MP cadre IAS officer so that she rewards them with state support of the large electoral state through her colleagues who would have been told that she is the next Chief Secretary in waiting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it weird that the BHP has spoken out for the Sadhvi whereas the Services have abandoned Purohit.<br />
The Govt of the day is at its election best trying anhhilate its opponents. Even to the extent of trying to create a ham fisted rift by leaking a story about an assaniation plot of RSS leaders. Each one doing it to his enemy &#8211; The Congress bringing dishonour to the BJP and the babus doing it to the Armed Forces. The BJP and the Military have been the target of a disinformation and vilification campaign for quite some time and needs to be checked. </p>
<p>On the lighter side Pragmatic has got subject matter for his blogs with each attack.</p>
<p>Every crime has a motive so why did the so alleged mastermind choose Malegaon when other cities have greter strike value? Seems fishy like the Govt trying to soft soap an MP cadre IAS officer so that she rewards them with state support of the large electoral state through her colleagues who would have been told that she is the next Chief Secretary in waiting.</p>
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		<title>By: realistic</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11036</link>
		<dc:creator>realistic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 03:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11036</guid>
		<description>An investigation proceeding purely based on narco analysis??!!
Narco analysis results at best is a fantazy spelt out, and at worst it is nothing more than a forced confession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An investigation proceeding purely based on narco analysis??!!<br />
Narco analysis results at best is a fantazy spelt out, and at worst it is nothing more than a forced confession.</p>
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		<title>By: menon</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11029</link>
		<dc:creator>menon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11029</guid>
		<description>@ I agree with Pragmatic that the Army should wake up and respond.
&lt;b&gt;They should respond with the following questions:&lt;/b&gt;
Is the Army considered incompetent of being co-opted as observers in the investigations.
Does the Govt have no faith in the Army?
If so, withdraw the Army from the borders and replace them with CPOs/PMFs who will one day talk like the Army.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ I agree with Pragmatic that the Army should wake up and respond.<br />
<b>They should respond with the following questions:</b><br />
Is the Army considered incompetent of being co-opted as observers in the investigations.<br />
Does the Govt have no faith in the Army?<br />
If so, withdraw the Army from the borders and replace them with CPOs/PMFs who will one day talk like the Army.</p>
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		<title>By: menon</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11028</link>
		<dc:creator>menon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11028</guid>
		<description>@ Pragmatic #32
What Law ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Pragmatic #32<br />
What Law ?</p>
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		<title>By: Pragmatic</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11026</link>
		<dc:creator>Pragmatic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11026</guid>
		<description>@Menon #31:

That is pure conjecture. Lt Colonel Purohit is not convicted yet, only charged. Let the law take its own course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Menon #31:</p>
<p>That is pure conjecture. Lt Colonel Purohit is not convicted yet, only charged. Let the law take its own course.</p>
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		<title>By: menon</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11022</link>
		<dc:creator>menon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11022</guid>
		<description>This is what the Maharashtra Police did some time ago--
&lt;i&gt;On 28 November 2006, Mumbai police stated that two Pakistani nationals were involved in the explosions. &quot;We have successfully detected the Malegaon blasts case. We are, however, on the lookout for eight more suspects in the case,&quot; said DGP PS Pasricha. The Anti-Terrorism Squad probing into the case has already arrested eight suspects, including two booked in the July 11 Mumbai serial blasts, in connection with four explosions that rocked the town killing 31 people and injuring more than 200. 
Three accused gave a confession before a competent authority about their involvement in the conspiracy but soon thereafter two of them retracted before a magistrate, saying they had not made a voluntary disclosure.&lt;/i&gt;

Now -----
&lt;i&gt;Malegaon has been the focus of communal tension for some time, which spilled out into the open in 1984, 1992, and 2001, when there were large scale protest over the US invasion of Afghanistan. Police had killed 12 Muslim protesters after a brief altercation with them. The erstwhile Taliban regime in Afghanistan had enjoyed immense support from Muslims in Malegaon.&lt;/i&gt;
If that be so then Lt Col Purohit would have tried some covert operation to ferret intelligence and would ahve contated people in that area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what the Maharashtra Police did some time ago&#8211;<br />
<i>On 28 November 2006, Mumbai police stated that two Pakistani nationals were involved in the explosions. &#8220;We have successfully detected the Malegaon blasts case. We are, however, on the lookout for eight more suspects in the case,&#8221; said DGP PS Pasricha. The Anti-Terrorism Squad probing into the case has already arrested eight suspects, including two booked in the July 11 Mumbai serial blasts, in connection with four explosions that rocked the town killing 31 people and injuring more than 200.<br />
Three accused gave a confession before a competent authority about their involvement in the conspiracy but soon thereafter two of them retracted before a magistrate, saying they had not made a voluntary disclosure.</i></p>
<p>Now &#8212;&#8211;<br />
<i>Malegaon has been the focus of communal tension for some time, which spilled out into the open in 1984, 1992, and 2001, when there were large scale protest over the US invasion of Afghanistan. Police had killed 12 Muslim protesters after a brief altercation with them. The erstwhile Taliban regime in Afghanistan had enjoyed immense support from Muslims in Malegaon.</i><br />
If that be so then Lt Col Purohit would have tried some covert operation to ferret intelligence and would ahve contated people in that area.</p>
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		<title>By: yash</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11016</link>
		<dc:creator>yash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11016</guid>
		<description>Kat, 

ur right on the target.

The Country of the Blind by HG Wells

Prag, and others also  please read the story - it is interesting as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kat, </p>
<p>ur right on the target.</p>
<p>The Country of the Blind by HG Wells</p>
<p>Prag, and others also  please read the story &#8211; it is interesting as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kat</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11014</link>
		<dc:creator>Kat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11014</guid>
		<description>@yash #28:

&lt;em&gt;I remember i read a story...&lt;/em&gt;

That sir, would be &lt;strong&gt;Nunez&lt;/strong&gt; in &lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Country_of_the_Blind&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Country of the Blind&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; by HG Wells

regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@yash #28:</p>
<p><em>I remember i read a story&#8230;</em></p>
<p>That sir, would be <strong>Nunez</strong> in <strong><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Country_of_the_Blind" rel="nofollow">The Country of the Blind</a></strong> by HG Wells</p>
<p>regards</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: yash</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11011</link>
		<dc:creator>yash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11011</guid>
		<description>now the discussion is moving in a positive manner. the issue is important and needs to be discussed threadbare. 

i was watching the TV and a report on headlines today with manoj tewary and someone else. while the entire report was of pragya thakur, and PM speaking to  Advani, all the photographs being flashed were of purohit (over 25-30 photos)

don&#039;t read too much into PM assuring advani, it is pure politics (nice movie plot), that&#039;s why plot to kill some RSS leaders also has been thrown in to create dissension and confusion. now i am becoming convinced it is a political plot, and has got nothing to do with terrorism (how the army officer is involved i am not sure). investigation by IB or RAW, well donot get into this false sense of assurance. (after assam blasts every agency climed to have provided inputs - what? there is likely to be a major action in assam. a similar action would have been there last month and the month before that also, it is a routine, sit in front of a map, collate major incidents and make a conclusion. intelligence is not speculation! it is hard facts). 

why did the ATS chief issue directions to stop leaks (as if it permitted ) only after the political tide turned. everyone enjoyed it initially, rather added fuel to the fire gleefully. i am just basing my apprehensions on reading of the daily events. even a third rate police inspector will tell u the case has nothing substantive and is based on mere speculation. 

coming to narco test. Narco test is not what it is being projected. it is a means to further investigation. even intelligence agencies do not use results of narco test for any basis. it just helps find more links which can be investigated. if u ask a man under sedation have u killed ur mother? and he hates her, 90% cases he will answer in the positive. mostly the person gives single syllable answers or a few phrases or names. if narco test was so successful, most of the criminal cases would have been solved and police would have recommended establishing narco analysis centres in every district. do not believe narco test it means nothing at all. 

coming to army&#039;s silence. the evidences presented till now, do not prove anything. but the charge is serious and any statement by the army will influence public opinion one way or the other, so army is doing the only wise option available, that is to keep quiet and let the police do their job and get the bouquets and brickbats. 

as i have mentioned earlier, army bashing is one of the most going topics these days, since it gives a lot of pleasure to ppl when they know that the army is also like them. I remember i read a story in CBSE 11th or 12th, where a man reaches a blind colony, and tries to make them understand what is seeing(sight). they think he has some deformity and plan to remove his eyes to make him like them. same is the case with the environment in india. they would feel better when the army turned like them.

the basic reason of imposing MACOCA against these ppl is to hold them till the elections, to prevent any fallouts. 

Depp, he has not got a weapon for him on forged papers (forgery is again hearsay). he just got a liscence for him. so don&#039;t feel bad.

while i would not like to lay the blame any one for this fiasco going on, i am forced to think, who would have the ability to such a thing and get away with it. it is for all of u to think. if the aim of apprehending purohit was only for investigation, it could have been done in a more quiet way, he could have been kept with the army, without apprehending (army does not need any permission to detain, not apprehend, him). but as i have said earlier, the aim was publicity (for whatever reason), hence the entire drama. 

so, just do not read the news. analyse it in light of the information already available. and in this age of internet such information is available at the click of a mouse. we indians believe more on rumours rather than facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>now the discussion is moving in a positive manner. the issue is important and needs to be discussed threadbare. </p>
<p>i was watching the TV and a report on headlines today with manoj tewary and someone else. while the entire report was of pragya thakur, and PM speaking to  Advani, all the photographs being flashed were of purohit (over 25-30 photos)</p>
<p>don&#8217;t read too much into PM assuring advani, it is pure politics (nice movie plot), that&#8217;s why plot to kill some RSS leaders also has been thrown in to create dissension and confusion. now i am becoming convinced it is a political plot, and has got nothing to do with terrorism (how the army officer is involved i am not sure). investigation by IB or RAW, well donot get into this false sense of assurance. (after assam blasts every agency climed to have provided inputs &#8211; what? there is likely to be a major action in assam. a similar action would have been there last month and the month before that also, it is a routine, sit in front of a map, collate major incidents and make a conclusion. intelligence is not speculation! it is hard facts). </p>
<p>why did the ATS chief issue directions to stop leaks (as if it permitted ) only after the political tide turned. everyone enjoyed it initially, rather added fuel to the fire gleefully. i am just basing my apprehensions on reading of the daily events. even a third rate police inspector will tell u the case has nothing substantive and is based on mere speculation. </p>
<p>coming to narco test. Narco test is not what it is being projected. it is a means to further investigation. even intelligence agencies do not use results of narco test for any basis. it just helps find more links which can be investigated. if u ask a man under sedation have u killed ur mother? and he hates her, 90% cases he will answer in the positive. mostly the person gives single syllable answers or a few phrases or names. if narco test was so successful, most of the criminal cases would have been solved and police would have recommended establishing narco analysis centres in every district. do not believe narco test it means nothing at all. </p>
<p>coming to army&#8217;s silence. the evidences presented till now, do not prove anything. but the charge is serious and any statement by the army will influence public opinion one way or the other, so army is doing the only wise option available, that is to keep quiet and let the police do their job and get the bouquets and brickbats. </p>
<p>as i have mentioned earlier, army bashing is one of the most going topics these days, since it gives a lot of pleasure to ppl when they know that the army is also like them. I remember i read a story in CBSE 11th or 12th, where a man reaches a blind colony, and tries to make them understand what is seeing(sight). they think he has some deformity and plan to remove his eyes to make him like them. same is the case with the environment in india. they would feel better when the army turned like them.</p>
<p>the basic reason of imposing MACOCA against these ppl is to hold them till the elections, to prevent any fallouts. </p>
<p>Depp, he has not got a weapon for him on forged papers (forgery is again hearsay). he just got a liscence for him. so don&#8217;t feel bad.</p>
<p>while i would not like to lay the blame any one for this fiasco going on, i am forced to think, who would have the ability to such a thing and get away with it. it is for all of u to think. if the aim of apprehending purohit was only for investigation, it could have been done in a more quiet way, he could have been kept with the army, without apprehending (army does not need any permission to detain, not apprehend, him). but as i have said earlier, the aim was publicity (for whatever reason), hence the entire drama. </p>
<p>so, just do not read the news. analyse it in light of the information already available. and in this age of internet such information is available at the click of a mouse. we indians believe more on rumours rather than facts.</p>
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		<title>By: PS</title>
		<link>http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/11/16/the-army-should-respond-immediately/comment-page-1/#comment-11003</link>
		<dc:creator>PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/?p=1299#comment-11003</guid>
		<description>@pragmatic

&quot;&lt;em&gt;the veterans (an unfortunate legacy of the proxy front created for the SCPC)&lt;/em&gt;&quot;

IMHO unlikely that the SM have any voluntary truck with ESM at any level, for anything, no Janus or proxy. Elderly, cranky Uncles and Aunties are absolutely not family ( hardly sinister mafia ) in polite, silent, colonial, closed shop SM circles.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article5195172.ece</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@pragmatic</p>
<p>&#8220;<em>the veterans (an unfortunate legacy of the proxy front created for the SCPC)</em>&#8221;</p>
<p>IMHO unlikely that the SM have any voluntary truck with ESM at any level, for anything, no Janus or proxy. Elderly, cranky Uncles and Aunties are absolutely not family ( hardly sinister mafia ) in polite, silent, colonial, closed shop SM circles.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article5195172.ece" rel="nofollow">http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article5195172.ece</a></p>
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