(a) are the civil officers in pb 3 crying about pb4 officers?
(b) secondly, all the majors ultimately will become lt col’s (after mandatory departmental exams and criteria appointments) – so they have no reason to complain and will not complain.

god save this country and the defence forces from the leech like clutches of this bureacracy coz nobody else seems to be capable/intrested to do anything about it.

Why SGT of Gp X with pay scale of 5000-100-xxx are placed in PB1 with GD pay of 2800 whereas civil counter parts in GD pay of 4200 in PB2
Sgts of IAF enjoy JCO Mess, Have supervisor authy on aircrafts, take independent Flight Charge of flying machine ! but…..

Can someone convey this to Top brass!

In the ‘Visitants annotate…….’ some post are marked ‘ in red.
Incidentally, that little red arrow is for hyperlinked items. Need to sort out the code to get it at the right place & colour. Thanks.

Pizza chalega.
IMO that it is high time I got Pizza Hut to start advertising on this blog. They seem to be the “flavour” of the week here.

In the ‘Visitants annotate…….’ some post are marked ‘ in red.
Makes me feel hungry.
Reminds me of the chiili mark in front of Schezuan dishes.
Hungry in the morning.
Pizza chalega.

It has been brought out clearly in SPC reccomendations where in for a Lt Col Revised stage in Pay band 3 is Rs 26280/-. Table 2.3.1 – Fixation of Officers in Defence Services (other than those belonging to MNS) in the revised Pay Bands

Point conceded. You were right about it and my contentions were partially wrong about MSP covering for the rank pay. Your reply helped me find the underlying logic of SCPC. Thanks for forcing me to go into greater details.

The logic of MSP, as per the SCPC, is actually about the edge in payscales provided to the service officers in the Third CPC, because they had disbanded the Special Disturbance Allowance and merged it as an edge in the basic pay for service officers. As per Para 2.3.10 of SCPC:

(ii)Special Disturbance Allowance was given to the Defence Forces officers in 1950 as a temporary measure to improve their earnings without interfering with the pay scales introduced as per the recommendations of the Post War Pay Committee which had brought down the pay scales of many Indian Commissioned Officers (ICOs).

(v) The Fifth CPC maintained this edge even though it reverted from running pay bands to individual pay scales for various officers’ ranks in the Defence Forces.

When the edge in basic pay, that had been provided to compensate the loss of Special Disturbance Allowance, has been restored as the MSP, the basic pay equivalence of Vth CPC doesn’t hold good any more. If you reduce the edge provided and then equate, you will come to the same conclusion as the SCPC (S-21 for Lt Colonels).

Else it is the case of double benefit for service officers. An edge given earlier to compensate for the loss of a special allowance (Special Disturbance Allowance) in the basic pay is allowed to continue, even when that allowance has now been restored as the Military Service Pay.

Correct me how I am wrong in deciphering the SCPC logic. The next question is how do we counter this? Any ideas!

(a) I have spent almost 19 years in service and till date nobody has been able to sort out ot solve this chaos of Basic Pay = Rank Pay so lets not try it out now( that too when it has been phased out in 6SPC)..

(b) …fixed them in running pay band of Basic Rs 26280/- …It only placed them in PB-3. It doesn’t explicitly mention any such figure in the report. Can you provide me the reference?…………………

It has been brought out clearly in SPC reccomendations where in for a Lt Col Revised stage in Pay band 3 is Rs 26280/-. Table 2.3.1 – Fixation of Officers in Defence Services (other than those
belonging to MNS) in the revised Pay Bands

————————————————————-
Pre-revised Pay in the scale – 13,500
- Rank pay 1,600
- Revised Stage in revised Pay Band 26,280
Grade Pay 6,600
Military Service Pay 6,000
Total Revised Pay 38,880
————————————————————

So my point is that even if I dont consider my Rank pay still my Basic pay is Rs 13500/- so how is it that 6 PC fixed me in Grade Pay of Rs 6600/- which as per SSPC para 2.2.18 was given civilan with basic of 12000-375-16500 (S-21).

2. And now when Lt Cols grade pay was enhanced to 7600 then what was the need to shift both S-21 and S-22 also to 7600/-

prakash

Let me play the devil’s advocate and argue against your contentions.

In the original SPC recoomednation Lt Cols and equi were proposed this
Pre-revised scale Rs.13500-400-17100 (Rank Pay 1600)… they fall into the bracket of Civ equivalent of S-25 ( with basic apy of Rs 15100-)

Rank pay for military personnel was to give an edge and that edge has been maintained by Military Service Pay Pay as per the SCPC. So the starting basic remains at 13500/- and not 15100/-.

The SCPC report (Paragraph 2.3.10 and 2.3.12) also says:

The Fourth CPC had continued this edge in devising the running pay band for Defence Forces officers… The element of rank pay was carved out of the pay scales so revised after giving the edge vis-à-vis civilian group A officers.
The edge enjoyed by the Defence Forces over the civilian scales will, after suitable enhancement to meet the genuine aspirations of the Defence Forces, be given as a separate element called Military Service Pay.

…fixed them in running pay band of Basic Rs 26280/- …

It only placed them in PB-3. It doesn’t explicitly mention any such figure in the report. Can you provide me the reference?

but gave them Grade Pay of only 6600/- (which was equiv to S -21 band of Civilians)

Refer Rank pay above.

Armed Forces made noise about Less Garde Pay and hence lowering of status( As per SPC status equi is not by Pay Band but Grade Pay)

The Cabinet has clarified that the grade pay will determine the status only within the cadre and not between the cadres.

lt col had grade pay of only rs 7600/- and govt smartly shifted civ of s-21, s-22 also to higher grade pay of 7600. secondly, it also enhanced s-24 gp civ (from grade pay 7600) to grade pay 8700 (that means to pb-4). this s-24 gp happens to be junior grade than lt col who was equivalent to s-25 basic pay…

The basic presumption of Rank Pay being counted towards the Basic Pay, when that edge has been maintained via the MSP, is the cause of this error. If you can catch hold of someone, catch the guys who placed the case of the services with the IV CPC and goofed it up. The current crop is only paying for their foolhardiness.

Let me clarify (before I am personally attacked) that this is just an academic argument. There are other reasons why Lt Colonels should be in the higher pay band and they have been made rather cogently by Navdeep. I just hope that the services pay commission cells are not making Prakash’s arguments, but basing it on Navdeep’s contentions.

In the original SPC recoomednation Lt Cols and equi were proposed this
Pre-revised scale Rs.13500-400-17100 (Rank Pay 1600)
Revised PBand PB-3 + Grade Pay + MSP= Rs.15600-39100 + Rs.6600 +Rs.6000

As per pre revised pay scale they fall into the bracket of Civ equivalent of S-25 ( with basic apy of Rs 15100-)
So SPS recognised Lt Cols and equi Basic Pay as 15100(on adding BP and RP) and fixed them in running pay band of Basic Rs 26280/- but gave them Grade Pay of only 6600/- ( which was equiv to S -21 band of Civilians)
Now once the report was made public then Armed Forces made noise about Less Garde Pay and hence lowering of status( As per SPC status equi is not by Pay Band but Grade Pay)

Govt agrred but when cabinet approved Pay Commission. But
lt col had grade pay of only rs 7600/- and govt smartly shifted civ of s-21, s-22 also to higher grade pay of 7600. secondly, it also enhanced s-24 gp civ (from grade pay 7600) to grade pay 8700 (that means to pb-4). this s-24 gp happens to be junior grade than lt col who was equivalent to s-25 basic pay..
So originally it was Goof up( dunno intentional or not) of Grade Pay and later Shifted to PB4

Prakash

The army is fighting a war.The enemy here unfortunately is no foriegner but the unholy troika(as pragmatic puts it).The nation takes us for granted because we do not have powers to influenc people’s lives.Remember when the corrupt IPS guys asked for a pay hike and demanded that their status w.r.t the IAS babus be maintained no body had a problem.Gupta ji of express did not even bother about it.

If you think the public is with you,think again…They need someone to kick them and then they will worship them.The same case with media..

The reason why we are being illtreated is that we do not stick to our guns.We creat some ruckus and then retreat.Hope that this time we stand united and fight till the end

I did go through the report.Thanks for clearing my doubts.You do have a point or two.

You may like to read the report yourself to seek clarifications. The original SCPC report is available here[pdf]. Happy reading!

One question for you……As you said rightly,Lt Cols were placed in PB3 initially.But were the civilian equivalents also placed in the same pay band in the initial report?was there any reference to the pay of civil services in the report? There certainly was a mention of what each rank of services would get in the report…

plz clarify…………