Intercaste marriage in the IAF
It has taken 15 years coming. Women officers were inducted into the defence services a decade and a half back. There are incessant demands from the politicians, including the Defence Minister, to grant them permanent commission (see Grant permanent commission to women officers). Now, the Sunday Express reports that–
The Indian Air Force is in a bit of turbulence after a woman Air Force officer, a Flight Lieutenant, has said that she wants to marry a junior, a Sergeant, a non-commissioned officer.
In the IAF’s strict hierarchy, that’s a problem and tradition seems to be standing in the way.
So Air Headquarters, Delhi, has thought it best to conduct a “survey among lady officers” in each air force station across the country. Objective: find out whether such a marriage should be allowed. And, if yes, what could its “consequences” be.
This one is a real conundrum for the IAF to resolve. The traditional view among the services, which comprise majorly male officers, is to dismiss the whole idea itself as ridiculous. In their eyes, it is blasphemous to even dream of an officer marrying a subordinate. The more conservative ones will opine that the women officers should not have been inducted into the services in the first place. As you sow so shall you reap… We told you so…
The main argument put forth by these guys is of practical problems due to “unique nature” of the services. These practical problems mainly refer to social interaction, such as in the officers’ mess and other social events. In an organisation where social interaction between an officer and a subordinate, as equals, is taboo, it is indeed a uncomfortable situation for the male dominated services to grin and bear.
The other side of the argument is about individual rights and personal freedom. Very obviously, the services have no business dictating the personal lives of their officers and subordinates. Let us take a look at what the IAF spokesperson said–
The Indian Air Force has egalitarian norms governing the social lives of its air warriors. There is no prohibition for women officers marrying our air men. The organization does not intend to interfere in their personal lives. Headquarters is in process of evolving guidelines for smooth conduct in such cases. Therefore a survey is presently being carried out amongst our women air warriors based on which guidelines will be evolved.
It is indeed a rather innovative solution [a smart act, in military parlance] found by the IAF is to ask the opinion of all women officers in the IAF. Isn’t it appalling that Air headquarters should even contemplate a survey to decide the private affairs of two individuals?
Notwithstanding the sudden love for voting and survey in the services, this raises a very obvious query. Why is the IAF, that boasts of egalitarian norms, not conducting a similar survey among the subordinate staff of the IAF? Even these guys are a party to the problem. Either their opinions don’t matter or their views will be too uncomfortable for the “egalitarian” IAF to digest.
One can safely predict where this is leading to; the opinion survey will not agree to such marriages and the IAF, respecting an individual’s right, will allow her to quit the IAF and marry the Sergeant. This is a perfect via media solution for a hoary, outdated organisation trying to protect its MCP turf. The staff officer at the Air headquarters, who initiated this brilliant idea, will be feted for his ingenuity and “smartness”.
There are other related issues. Is the IAF really going to form guidelines based on the opinions of affected individuals? Will they do the same for the large number of officers desirous of quitting the IAF? Will they use the similar method for promotions and postings as well?
This chicanery of a survey by the IAF only reflects the depths of poor leadership that the top brass in the IAF has plumbed to. They don’t have the moral courage to directly say what they believe in; they instead choose to indulge in sly, tricksy and wily machinations.
Have the services thought about the effect of these guidelines, once they are formulated, on the morale of the subordinate ranks in the IAF? Their genuine reaction would be that this marriage is such a taboo because it breaks the caste hierarchy of the services– proverbial brahmins (officers) and shudras (subordinates). The so-called practical issues being raised only point to a well entrenched caste system in the services– how can an airman eat with us or socially mingle with us as an equal? These subordinates need to be segregated and subjugated. The casteism is flourishing not only in the hinterlands of Haryana, UP and Bihar but in a supposedly “western” organisation like the IAF. Out there, they kill couples for marrying into other castes. In the IAF, they are likely to ask her to leave the service — a kind of social outcaste.
Let us also remember that this is a story highlighted on the front page of a national daily on a Sunday. The message that it sends across is that the defence services are living in a bygone era, incongruous to the realities of a modern India. The services certainly can not hope to attract the “bright and brightest” with such stories which portray them as obsolete and dead organisations from a different century. Let me repeat this immortal line from the classic cartoon Calvin and Hobbes–
Careful. We don’t want to learn from this.
This blogger is aware that these arguments, against the actions of the IAF, will be assailed, in the language of an anonymous service officer friend, as “ridiculous, bogus, probably judgmental, almost certainly backward and putting forth bad, irrational, pointless arguments that don’t belong in a military culture.”
Fear not, it is not for nothing that India is a democratic country!
[...] this problem? It decides to conduct a survey among’ lady officers’ across the country. Pragmatic asks: Isn’t it appalling that Air headquarters should even contemplate a survey to decide the [...]
[1] Scrap officers Messes ? Serve no military purpose. Lunch in War and Piecemeal please.
[2] So ? There was this Desi Lt General whose wife was Firangi {Greek}. Lady was stickler for good form. A Lt Col almost got the sack for serving broken cashew nuts at a Mess Party. The memsahibs are as tough as the Land Worriers. What if the IAF Mess Sergeant marries the PMC and the badam soup is served cold ?
The enire article is in mixed taste. We all apreciae the need of modernisation may be without understanding it. What the writer wants it to open the defence forces society and keep every one on equal footiong. He should suggest that 1. Fundamental rights of defence forces personnel should not be abrogated whis done at present, 2. They should be treated at par with civilian personnel, 3. All should be brought under CCS Rules instead of Armed Forces Acts, 4. why uniform also. All this may lead to contempt, unionisation, many a times leadership problem. How does it matter. After all all civil services have not only done well during the last 60 years or so but they have prospered well.
So bring in drastic changes. I have heard that certain womam IAS femele officer had married her driver. I am sure that he wold have attended all socials and other functions all over inludinf exclusive IAS Clubs, Gymkhana etc. Thats the real matured democracy.
well guys,i need your advice on this one urgently.whom should i marry to free myself from this org?
try a foreign national preferably pakistani!!
I think that the media is blowing the issue out of proportion. Incidents like this have happened in the past also with MNS getting married to PBORs. As per colonial mindset, it was ensured that the queen & king were never posted together – to save embarrassment to both the organisation as well as the happily wed.
The solution lies in what my blog sphere ‘guru’ (PS) has suggested – abolish officers mess/ institutes.
yah…good, scrap the officer messes.
yah…good,to solve one problem let’s create another.
Officer messes are rather a very good idea.The idea is so useful that even modern civilian clubs are following it.
I would say….problem like marriages between diff.ranks should be welcome.Let’s not mix personal and professional things.The husband and wife should follow both the norms of office and home according to the way they are required.
@ anu
“The husband and wife should follow both the norms of office and home according to the way they are required.”
Is mess gathering official or home affair?
If no questions are asked on the background of the ladies married to the gentlemen officers, why should questions be asked on the background of gentlemen married to women officers? Colonial mindset or being biased to women officers?
Please check the rules. There is no such thing like different messes. There is only one mess for all. Rest were created as per colonial mindset. Most of the clubs/ institutes have been formed in the garb of environmental/ training areas. Does that land belong only to officers?
Had the gentlemen been a clerk in some civil ‘sarkari’ office, would the news found any takers?
It is a matter of time when women will be inducted even in the NCO ranks. There will be much more incidents of inter caste marriages.
Let us change our mindset for that day.
Futuristic visions, anyone?
@Veeru
“It is a matter of time when women will be inducted even in the NCO ranks.”
I seriously doubt it. At least not any time soon.
Besides, no need of going overboard on the “colonial” mindset issue. Incidentally, even for male officers, permission of thier CO is taken before marriage. of course it is more of a token tradition but it is done.
i agree with anu on officer’s messes. i suppose it is prevelent in the civvy street too (IAS etc have thier own clubs, so does merchant navy officers). dont bash a system just because of one incompatibility.
it is a challenging situation but lets not go overboard in castigating the existing system.
[...] with their feet against the head of personnel in the army and thus the army Chief. These colonels, like the IAF women officer planning to marry an NCO, have put very important issues in the spotlight. It makes the services [...]
Dear Pragmatic
I have been following and reading almost most of your entries. Let me compliment you on your “Ability to Write in a Balanced and Matured Way” which is Fantastic. Armed Forces really need to Change their BASIC-MIND-SET, that’s what I can say. Good Work, Keep it up
What is all the fuss about? Let them marry; let the wife entertain her husband on even days in the Officers Mess and the husband entertain his wife in the SNCOs Mess on odd days (bills paid separately, pl); give them accn in the SMC (they will be a permanent headache to the AOC/Stn Cdr/CO).
Seriously, there is a term called fraternising with the ranks which is disouraged; if they want to marry the Officer or the SNCO should quit the IAF and be happily married ever after (though one pay packet might make life a bit difficult, but what the hell, people will live on love and fresh air till the childrne come!!!
Dear Sir/Mam,
While you are correct at stating that India is a democratic country and you’re entitled to your opinion, I guess a little groudwork before jumping to conclusions wouldn’t hurt. Will help to put issues in perspective. You’ve a already branded the IAF as bunch of MCP with colonial mindset to add to the cocktail. But you haven’t analyzed the problem. The Lady Officer wants to marry and Airmen. The operative word is Officer and airmen. It could very well have been the other way around but for a small fact that we do not have women in other ranks. In both the cases, the airmen, by virtue of the rank, gets on the turf of an officer. Which in armed forces, or the hue and cry, is sacrocant. And it is not only about Mess (which btw, is called Officer’s Mess) but accomodation also. If an organization gives an officer and his family some priveledge by virtue of his rank, some one can’t get a backdoor entry to it.
As for the guy being a “sarkari” clerk, there would not have been a hue and cry for exactly the reason that he does not rock the boat wrt existing protocol.
Someone here mentioned MNS staff from AMC marrying NCO’s/JCO’. Let me put some light to it. An MNS Officers in the hierarchy is not same as an army officer. An Army Officer or a Dcotor in AMC is President’s Commision while a MNS officer is Chief’s Commision. Doctors and MNS staff have different messess in AMC and one does not go to others.
A small tidbit, in US Armed Forces, if ther is such “intercaste” marriage, one of the two has to resign from the services.
Let us leave little individuality and necessary style that is still left in the forces.Let the get marrid but please spare the Services and have blissful life out side.
MNS Officer are Commissioned by the President of India, just like the doctors and dentists or for that matter any other Officer in the Armed Forces
@Veeru
Is mess gathering official or home affair?
Yes Mess gathering is an official affair.And in that case the husband being in the lower rank should not be allowed as per the protocol.
In the corporate offices also if an officer(lady)wants to marry a peon/clerk,then her husband will not be allowed in the official parties of the officers.That’s the protocol.
And if the same lady invites her colleages to her home for a personal occassion,then her husband should sit with them together as a host.
I strongly feel that ‘work’ of any kind should be respected,be it of an officer or clerk or peon,but at the same time every organization follows some protocols to maintain the discipline and that is very necessary too for better functioning…We shouldn’t feel sentimental about it.
R & R Hospital Delhi has a car park for Lt Gens and above only. As do most fauji car parks. As the General’s* spouse retired as a Brigadier, don’t know how car protocol was maintained.
*http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Articles/Article36.html
@ Mathew
Check Facts before Posting
The comment that MNS Officers are not commissioned by the President of India and they do not attend the fuctions of other Officer’s Messess functions are untrue. They are commissioned by the President of India under the authority of Military Nursing Service Act 1943. They become members of other Officer’s messess when there is no separate MNS Officer’s Mess available. They routinely attend the functions at the AMC Officers Messess on invitation and vice versa. The rule of establishing separate messess for MNS Officers were framed at a time when they were the only women in the Indian Armed Forces (essentailly to keep the male officers away). The current generation seems to be unaware of this fact.
@A Ruin
I am absolutely certain. Kindly enlighten yourself rather than depanding upon ‘hearsay’. Read Indian Military Nursing Service Ordninance 1943, Army Act 1950 Sec-1, Army Rules 1954 Rule 16A and Defence Service Regulations (DSR for Army) Para 732 (b). You will be convinced that MNS Officers are Commissioned Officers just like any Doctor, Dentist, Postman, Milkman, Pilot or Engineer of Indian Army (Armed Forces).
@ all
If that is so , then we are all educated by this post. Any what , exactly , is the difference between , say a MNS officer and a doctor ,wrt pay and perks ?
Now that Commissioned officers are just any Doctor, Dentist, Postman, Milkman ———— ref @ Mathew —-Why talk only of jiving it in the Officers Mess. What happens if the Sarge is HOT & the ‘MNS Officer’ has a headache? Can he be charged with an act prejudicial to good order and military disciplne?
@ Mathew W.r.t your
@A Ruin
I am absolutely certain. Kindly enlighten yourself rather than depanding upon ‘hearsay’. Read Indian Military Nursing Service Ordninance 1943, Army Act 1950 Sec-1, Army Rules 1954 Rule 16A and Defence Service Regulations (DSR for Army) Para 732 (b). You will be convinced that MNS Officers are Commissioned Officers just like any Doctor, Dentist, Postman, Milkman, Pilot or Engineer of Indian Army (Armed Forces).”
1) There is an Annexe to the DSR Please READ it
2) MNS’s are just “Officers” and Not “Gazetted Officers”.
3) They are not “Commissioned”.
4) They pay structure starts much below that of a Commissioned Officer.
5) They were given Ranks of Officers just to control the Wrongs being done to them by the “Commissioned Officers”.
@ technocrat
1. 5 pay commision difference b/w MNS offrs and other is exactly Rs 250/-(even IAS/IPS offrs draw the same) and no rank pay.6 pay commision their pay is as good as any other officer with reduced MSP(Rs 4200).
2. they get promoted in 5 year pds …no avc-I commsion for them…some sources say that its going to reduce even further…
@MNS
It seems that the word ‘nurse’ appears to be a dirty word for most of us ‘Indians’. It is none of our fault, because we have been a cast based society for the past two thopusand years atleast. Here certain professions are considered superior. The actual issue likes there, as we generally considers the ‘nursing profssion’ as an inferior one; something akin to ‘maid servant’. It is; the so called internet savy, English speaking, learned people like us climbs out of the well.
The nursing profession is established by the Indian Nursing Council Act 1947 (INC is a boby simillar to the Medical Council, also established by an act of parliament). Its secretary is a registered nurse ,who is also the Nursing Advicer to the Govt of India. The NA to GOI being a ‘nurse’ is of the rank of a Jt Sec (eq to Maj Gen in Army).
The qualificaion required to become a ‘registered nurse’ (the correct usage) are either Dip in Nursing after 10+2 PCB. The duration of the course is 3 1/2 years followed by compulsory internship of six months (to get a licence as a registered nurse). or BSc in Nursing (after 10+2 PCB with min 50%), a four year degree programme, followed by a compulsory internship of one year (doctor 4 1/2 + 1 year, wheras nurse 4+1 year). The world over the nursing is recognised as a distinct science having separate standing from the medicine. That is why even for a medical doctor to practice as a nurse, he has to under go a minimum crash course of 2 years to become registered nurse. Learn more about such thousands of ‘doctor nurses migrating to US’.
Coming back to the Armed Forces, the gerenal perception is that Nurses are given Commissioned ranks just to save them from sexual harrassment. The is far from the truth. In US, UK, Canada, Australia or even in the Pakistan (almost all counrties the Nurses are Commissioned Officers). Most of them have ‘Army Nurse Corps’ having Commissioned Nursing Officers and other ranks consists of registed nurses and nursing orderlies (nursing assistants). In the US army, their Pacific Medical Command is commanded by a Nurse Corps Maj Gen (she has more doctors and hospitals under her command than the entire Indian Navy and Air Force put together).
The Nurses were the first women in the Indian Army (since 1886). The separate Indian Army Nursing Services was set up in 1927. In 1943 during the war to meet the requirements of the fast growing Army, several organs of the Nursing Services were merged and the todays Indian Military Nursing Service was formed through an Ordinance (IMNS ordinance 1043). This was ratified in the Parliament in 1950 as aprt of the adoptation of laws order (AOLO 1950) making it an Act. The MNS Act grants the Officers of the MNS commissioned officer status. They are commissioned by the President of India by a ‘gazette of India’ notification. It reads like, ‘the President is pleased to grant commission to ‘…………’ in Mlitary Nursing Service as Lieutenent’. The DSR Para 732 (b) says that the women Officers serving in Army Medical Corps and Military Nursing Service ranks equally with male officers of same titullar rank.
Though the MNS is part of the Army, they have the status of an auxiliary force (now support services of Army) as per the Act. The forebearer of AMC the Indian Hospitals Corps were also had the status of ‘auxialiry forces’ in 1943. After the Independence the AMC was made Corps of the Army and MNS was left out. The Nursing Assisstants of AMC who are suppossed to assisst the ‘Nurses’ are part of the AMC. The MNS Officer being members of an auxiliary force are not ‘superior officer’ to the other army men (nursing assistants/ medical assisstants) whom ther are supposssed to supervice; which hinderes their function in hospitals.
The other countires which had the simillar standing of Nurses in the armed forces during WW-II. After the war most of them formed Nurses Corps, which has all the nursing personnel under the same umbrella. In India the AMC doctors against such an arrangement as they will lose the power of command over the majority of personnel (Nur Assts).
The good news is that along with granting of Permanent Commission to women in Armed Forces (other than, AMC, ADC & MNS), the Govt is considering the formation of a Nurse Corps. The final decision on the matter is still pending.
Presently the Nursing Profession of the Armed Forces are superviced and managed by the medical doctors. This is againt the set up in the civil world and armed forces whole over the world. Where the Nursing services are run by the professional nurses.
Kindly browse Nurse Corps web sites, read IMNS Act 1943, Rules 1944, Army Act 1950 and Rules 1954, DSR, GoI Notification Pt IV). The MNS Officers are commissioned just like anyother officers, off course with some limitations, as the Law can be intrepreted eitherway. The VI PC report says the status of an Officer of the Armed Forces will be determined by the ‘grade pay’ attached to that post. That is enough for all those doubting Thomases. Sorry no offence meant to anyone.
Just wait for the fine print of the accepted VI PC. Don’t be surprised if commissioned Officers of MNS also gets an MSP of Rs 6000/.
@MNS/mathew
You made me an ‘enlightened soul’, thank you.