Why no military adviser for 6th Pay Commission?
Government of India appoints as a policy only one Central Pay Commission for all Central Government employees. A request was made to the Ministry of Finance and Sixth Central Pay Commission to appoint a person with Service background in the Sixth Central Pay Commission as a Member/ Adviser. The name of a retired Lt.General was also suggested to the 6th Pay Commission for appointment as Adviser. However, the Commission has felt that there was no need for appointment of an Adviser as the Commission would give full opportunity to the Armed Forces to place their views before the Commission. The Services can directly interact with the Commission and present proposals, demands and special problems of the forces in the right perspective.
[Ministry of Defence OM No. H-11013/15/2006/D(Parl) dated 15.2.2007]
The Pay Commission did a shoddy job regarding the armed forces. Neither did they understand the difficulties faced by the men in uniform , nor did they sense the deep sense of discontent in the force.
A member on the panel would surely have helped. at least the forces would not have felt short-changed at the hands of civilian babus.
All fools day
How many Generals/ Air Marshals/ Admirals put their foot down against this long outstanding demand of the Armed Forces?
@ PS
tussi too much ho jee!
i think we need a war so that the soldiers get their dues? is is so?
i think we need a war so that the soldiers get their dues? is it so?
again in the aftermath of submission of report and formation of various committees, no ex or serving general has been included. only babaus again.
Good show.Keep it up.
Dear Shiva,
True we need war not one but many so that voice of army is heard. In my other posts at other threads like Army , image and reality, this was advocated by me and Kartik too. Some guys of course react that it was wishful thinking and out of frustration.In fact they were frustrated lot and probably clueless. There is no frustration. The real fact is that peace time army has no respect specially in this land. Many guys see it as a waste of national resources.Are we maintaining army as a show piece as a safety factor? Second is rather true. We have already fought many wars and lost some too. But for Army , Delhi would have been with Pak. in 1965 Field Marshal Ayub Khan declared that He will have breakfast at Rawalpindi and lunch at Delhi. They were so confident when Pattons lumbered across the borders in hundreds. Army has shown what it means. Leaders like Shastri and jagivan Ram had guts and in fact Indians could have good lunch with roasted chicken at Lahore. But after 1971 we have gone into hybernation. Pakistan has gone nuclear. Rather we have turned a Nelsons eye to its activities. In similar situation Israel smashed Iraqs nuclear facilities. We only shout at pitch of voice and do nothing except to give long useless statements from the parliament and external affairs ministry that lead no where except to land the nation into a quagmire. Now Pak is nuclear with missiles too. We developed cold feet when Indian parliament was attacked. Gandhis soul keeps pulling Indians rear wards finally to the doom day one day. It has done already in the past in 1947. Indian armys word would be never be heard as long as Army remains a ceremonial outfit without being active. People question why have such huge army when make no use of it. Years ago some one remarked that army should be used for constructional activities and its ordnace factories and base workshops be used for making coffee pots. True FM Kariappa remarkably in his speech said Aaj hum sab Muft ho gaye hain. He shoud have said Mukt ho gaye Hain. He was weak in Hindi being a Koorgi. As usual all North Indians feel that all south Indians are weak in Hindi and call them Tambis. The north south gap is still very much there. Although unknowingly he said these words his statements were absolutely true. Aaj ham ( Army) muft ( Free of no value) ho gayen hai. True. Army in the eyes of IAS babus and Dhotiwallahs has become a useless setup and is of no consequence. God bless the Indians and army future.The guys who can not stand with spine has brought the image down and down. Army is like a caterpillar without a spine.As some one said beggars have no choise although difficult to digest.
Was Army happy with any comission in the past? I doubt
NEED WARS?
Dear Shiva,
True, Probably we need war not one but many so that voice of army is heard. In my other posts at other threads like Army, apart from Kartik (Pragmatic euphony) too. Some guys of course react that it was wishful thinking and out of frustration due to failure of civil government in reacting to demands of army. In fact, they were frustrated lot themselves and probably have their own way. There is no frustration on this side. The real fact is that peace time army has no respect and also will have no respect especially in this land.This is truth whether some one likes or not. Many guys see it as a waste of national resources. Are we maintaining army as a show piece as a safety factor? Second is rather true. We have already fought many wars and lost some major too. But for Army, Delhi would have been with Pak. In 1965 Field Marshal Ayub Khan declared that He would have breakfast at Rawalpindi and lunch at Delhi or something to that effect. It shows how poorly he assessed and how very confident he was. They were so confident when Pattons lumbered across the borders in hundreds. Army has shown what it means. Leaders like Shastri and Jagivan Ram, Defense minister had guts and in fact Indians could have good lunch with roasted chicken at Lahore. I am sorry. We are Gandhian. No Chicken. We could have had some vegetables and goats milk, peeled bananas and Parathas in Lahore. But after 1971 we have gone into hibernation like bears sleeping in caves or frogs sleeping under the earth.. Pakistan has gone nuclear. Rather we have turned a Nelsons eye to its activities. In similar situation Israel smashed Iraqs nuclear facilities. We only shout at pitch of voice and do nothing except to give long vague statements from the parliament and external affairs ministry that lead no where except to land the nation into a quagmire as faitaccompli. Now Pak is nuclear with missiles too. They can hammer us black and blue. Kautilya who was the master political leader in Magadha Empire wrote long ago that enemy should be smashed when he was weak. We have failed to cut Pakistan into pieces when it was not nuclear. We have not lerant lessons from History. None will come for our rescue in emergency.Can we do it now? We developed cold feet when Indian parliament was attacked. We sang Ram Dhun.. repeatedly and prayed that wisdom should dawn on Pakistanis. Gandhis and Buddhas sermons are pulling Indians rear wards finally to the doom day one day. It has done already in the past in 1947. Indian Army’s word would be never be heard as long as Army remains a ceremonial outfit without being active. People question why have such huge army and at all as white elephant when make no use of it. To it we further add white elephants like Arjun Tanks more and more. Many years ago some one remarked that army should be used for constructional activities like fatigue parties ( Labor ) and its ordnance factories and base workshops be used for making coffee pots. True, FM Kariappa remarkably in his speech said Aaj hum sab Muft ho gaye hain. He shoud have said Mukt ho gaye Hain when he delivered his famous speech after gaining independence. His prophecy has come true. Army has really become Muft.. He was weak in Hindi being a Koorgi. As usual all North Indians feel that all south Indians are weak in Hindi and call them Tambis. The north south gap is still very much there. Although unknowingly he said these words his statements were absolutely true. Aaj ham ( Army) muft ( Free of no value) ho gayen hai. True. Army in the eyes of all knowing IAS babus and Dhotiwallahs and Topiwallahs has become a useless setup and of no consequence. God bless the Indians and army’s future. The guys who can not stand with spine shall fall down on the ground and have to crawl.
INDIAN ARMY OFFICERS AND CORPORATE WORLD
Prof Dr Colonel (Retired) K Prabhakar Rao
Fundamentally Indian Army officers no doubt have many good qualities such as leadership, ability to lead men in crisis, Withstand hardships etc. However their actions are completely limited to four walls of uniform bound limits. Most of the jobs are got done by the order and discipline that is inbuilt in the system. Fear of punishment, adverse remark and loosing promotions loom largely on them. As brought out by some, Army officers who slog around for 20 years to earn pension get outdated compared to corporate sector. Usually corporate sector likes to take people at senior and Middle level who can straight away deliver goods. There is no time for training and experimenting with a new guy unless he is related to the top guy or he is from the family of the business house. Except management skills that army officers claim as superior trait with them, on technical front their experience is of not much relevance in corporate sector. This may be applicable to Signals, EME, Engineers and even Armored Corps officers. There is not of much defense industry in civil sector in India unlike in USA. On the other hand, corporate sector is much apprehensive of the service officers who are brought up in a stiff surroundings, rank structure and trained to carry out orders like a robot. This becomes a disadvantage in civil sector.
Managing civilian set up is entirely different from managing a military unit. Problems are entirely different. I know some Generals who after retirement were given very senior positions as CEO and had to show results from day one. They quit in very short span. The two sides of the coin are entirely different. Age is against them. Experience is restricted. There is an air of doubt in corporate sector about service officers fitting in the stream with them. Officers having served as short service commission may have slight edge . Yet they are already in thirties and in Corporate sector age of senior ranks is much reduced now and very young and bright candidates from IIM etc rise rapidly and Service officers are not preferred. Army on the other front does not want to leave the experienced officers even if they miss the board. They have to slog for three attempts. He already becomes a dead wood in the eyes of corporate sector when he is left by army. In nut shell army itself is the cause for loss of opportunities for the officers and rehabilitation.
Unless army loosens its exit policy the suffering shall continue. There is also the problem of qualifications. Army courses like SO, Ldmc, Sdmc Psc, Ptsc etc have no recognition in corporate world. The MBA qualifications acquired by officers from some universities are not held in esteem outside and are of not much use to flash. Graduates from prestigious Management Institutions only have good chance. Others are side tracked. Ultimately officers going out of uniform at the end of 23 years or so have to satisfy themselves with middle level jobs and as security officers, material control officers, works managers, maintenance managers, and some odd type managers and can not expect to go any where near Vice president, president, CGM, GM etc. They have to be happy with such levels and be contended with pension and some additional income from the new job. This is the real situation in civil life.
Although army officers count every facility and convert them into cash as the gross pay it is not convincing outside. Corporate sector only sees the last pay drawn from CDA and accommodation. Unless take home pay is much improved parity cannot be claimed. Army officers can only prosper if they are allowed to leave much earlier in Junior Majors rank. They have enough time to prove and rise outside. Otherwise any one getting out at 45 years is drowned in the stiff competition outside where one can not fit in. Therefore many souls think it is better to hang around than face perils outside. However there could be always some exceptions and some could succeed quickly. But such chances are very few.
Army is like a Golden jail
Where men finally in end would get sick and pale
Guys coming out of a long service cruise
Come out as a tomato sucked off it\’s juice
HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!!!
sixth implemented!!!
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PARITY IN GRADE PAY PARITY? Found no mention of that.
I think the work horse ranks of armed forces (Maj/Lt col) have been totally let down
I am also a doctor in airforce, buttttt… I am an MBBS. I am not like other doctors who can write any shitty baseless views. My service is only of 3 years, I am on leave so responding to such craps….. My seniors can respond better but they dont read foolish lirterature, but if they do, they can respond in much better english, hindi or watever language a civilian wants.
Why people are so civial oriented that in their every line, they want an army man to come out of his organisation and do the civil job. I think most of them want that after 20 years of hard service (in Leh, Siachen, Mizoram, Manipur and Juwahati, Jaisalmer like God forsaken places) an armyman should lift the shit in civil area in his old age…NO MY DEAR CIVILIANS……NEVER……
I have gone to civil offices, most of babus are like pimps….no job. Army does 24 hour duty, if we remove this ”peace time useless army” (as said by some pseudo intellectuals), this country is going to be raped literally
…yes….only raped, but not more than that. Only an INTELLECTUAL person can imagine that(…..only intellectual)…..the situation in which internal forces will get burried in the heaps of corruption, then everyone will shout……… army…army… please save our corrupted ass……
This country is not surviving because of your politics, latest softwares, lengthy speeches, games, sex movies and all dat crap dat people living in peace areas keep dreaming in day time also…….. But this country is happy because its boarders are saved by people whos earnings are Rs 5000 per month each(good enough to spend on one time meal in a 5 star hotel by a so called corporate or any corrupt…….)
No need to explain to all those who dont even know how a border looks like and how tough it is to stay in in a climate having temperature ranging from -30 to 53 ‘ celsius, no need to explain to dose who dont even know how an army man gets leave in 6 months for only 20 days or even less for his family………. so many other things that a dumb civilian cant even imagine in dreams, dats y m not writing here….
army deserve a Lot ……. a lot…….. but its always deprived becoz of fools sitting in civil………
And 1 more thing,yes, army cant attack PAK……… u know why Mr…….. becoz of interest of your civil bloody politicians who think of their chair and nothing else…………. why they will advice for attack, u know why, becoz they are also civilians knowing nothing……….
Dr saheb, had there been everything in Army’s hands, you would not be in a position to even utter a single toxic word against army …… its only the politics that stop Army in its conduct of duties….. If some1 has time to write
craps, it doesnt mean armymen are sleepin…… and dont sing songs about your civilian made pay commission……. we dont work for money, we work for the country……. a country in which people are cutting each others throats, in which everywhere sex is flowing like blood in body…… a country which needs to be defended by army coz civilians are busy in making money out of paycommissions and crying if some extra penny is being given to army………. poor show……
happy independence day to all those who understand what freedom is…..and to them also who are reluctant to accept freedom becoz they are victims of ”civilisation”………
IN THIS CIVILISED WORLD WHO WANTS WAR??? STILL DEFENCE IS IN RESERVE TO PROTECT PEOPLE IN ADVERSE SITUATIONS. BUT THERE WELFARE SHOULD BE SEEN TOO.
IF THERE DEMANDS NOT FULFILLED ONE DAY INTERNAL WAR IS MUST , AS IN ALL PAY COMISSIONS IF WELFARE IS SEEN THAT TO LIMITED TO ONLY OFFICERS, NO MAN WELFARE IS SEEN. EXP IN THIS PAY COMMISION 1000 FOR MEN AND 6000 FOR OFFICERS. 6 TIMES ?????????? THOUGH ADVERSE SITUATIONS FACED BY MEN PBOR IS MUCH THAN OFFICERS.
IN EARLIER COMMISION LOWER GROUPS (Z)WERE TAKEN UP TO (Y). AND (Y GROUP ) STILL STANDS WHERE IT WAS. RESPONSIBILITY INCREASED. MAN POWER SCRUTINISED , REDUCED SO WORK LOAD INCREASED LIKE ANY THING. STILL OFFICERS RANKS INCREASED , PROMOTIONS GIVEN TO THEM, NO EXAM FOR THEM, AS IN CASE OF PBORS.
IN PAY COMISIONS ONLY DEMANDS OF OFFICERS ARE CONSIDERED. LOLLYPOP IS SHOWN TO PBORS. THERE MUST BE A WAR IN NEAR SO PBORS CAN …………………………………….
Smith sure is a PBOR from AF.Haven’t u heard of Part B,D exams?
Thank the Lord that there was no military adviser. AVS had an advisor & he screwed it up. Lord Bless him & his ignorance. The August Vagrant Suasible committee could come up with nothing better than Lt Cols being hereinafter called Full Colonels. Sri Krishna was another of the lot. A man who wangles plum committees for parasitic existence. Remember the Bombay riots committee headed by the same Sri Krishna. Imagine if this Sri Krishna had an Army Adviser. Then we would have had no say since the Babus and Netas would have said that this was recommended by your breed. Thank God for small mercies.
hi
i was juz browsing for recent reports/information regarding vi CPC and when gonna we get hiked pay but saw here more then what should i worried for. i was planning somthing not so big for me, my wife and future home but for what? our guys are in war of word. this is for whom? i thought i made a great and bold decision joining armed forces and still 12 years past in service, i havent let down. However, at this juncture i feel very embarrased, upset and literally curse my decision. I never gave much delight and luxury to my wife, family and friends like other but this is for whom? for me? NO.. for my family? a big NO. then for whom? CPC wont make me rich by any margin but i know these sort of talks would definately make me looser and hurting my morale. plz stop this.. jai hind.
Dear Gentlemen,
It seems that most of you especially the Doc doesnt know what he wants in life. Your views dont express the kind of prefixes you put on your name. I sincerely advice that you atleast not use your army appointment ahead of it. It is really very embarrasing how people so shallow in knowledge have gained the rank. We dont raise armies to fight a war but as a detterent. An army is a tool of foreign policy & it reflects the intention of a country. The US which extensively enploys its armed forces find themselves now in a lot of trouble. We need to understand for armed forces that such a huge strength has not been raised to fight our meagre adversories but to take care of nation that is not capable of handling its civilian administration on its own. The sooner we realise this we will understand why such large standing army has been raised for more than 100 crore suffering people. Secondly your last war of 1971 was not the last that the Indian armed forces have been fighting they have always being at war in a nation incapabale of controlling its own people. Kashmir, Punjab,Gujrat,Bihar & seven sisters have been few war zones for the armed forces. As for conventional war Clausewitz has said” Between two wars there is always preperation for war”. I understand that there are discrepancies in CPC & specially people who sacrifice or put their lives at stake deserve more, but this is a voluntary army & nobody is trying to keep you if you are not ready to serve. Regarding employment in corporate i firmly believe a person who does well in the armed forces also does well anywhere, anytime & any conditions outside. Your perspective seems to be a realistic but of a person who has misunderstood his own capabilities & strived for more witut requsite efforts. The corporate sector lacks the mother of all values necessary in running a successful tema. A team espirit & core values which the armed forces give. Good companies who value this will sooner or later realise its potential
GOD BLESS THIS COUNTRY
not really sure, if this is the right forum to post a query-why can’t defence Officers join the Civil Services?
@ pragmatic and all
tapan has a valid point. now that the armed forces have been degraded, why cant we encourage young officers to have a go and crack the exam. this would put to rest all notions of superiorty of one particular service.
Strength of our nation stands on the feet of our courageous Jawans, who constitute almost 90% of the total defence forces. But who represents those 90% PBORs ? Who cares for their welfare and shares their agony ? Who voices their sentiments ? They are now neglected lot in the society and stand between two stools and virtually become street beggars because of the irony of State Govt. as well as Union Govt. It is uniform for distant viewers, but difference persists in indifference, when looked at close proximity. This is what have been observed and has been come into light in the face of various pay commission reports. Since no one represents men in uniform, they have been neglected again and again. Their hardships have not been taken into account. As a matter of testimony, the Scale of Pay of officers has been hiked more than 35% since different Pay Commission Reports. However, the Pay Scale of men has been confined to 30% only. Apart from that, officers have been paid with lucrative rank pay, which carry DA and is counted towards fixation of pension, whereas PBOR holds thankless/payless rank. Similarly PBORs get clothe and money in lieu of ration contrary to officers who are provided with ration and money in lieu of clothe. PBOR is authorized to maryy a spinster, unlike officer who is authorized to marry virgin. Why so discrimination in uniform ? Who voices for the millions of men in uniform ? Airmen are the real technocrats, who maintain Aircrafts, equipments and documents, whereas officers are the assigning authority, who enjoy on wheeling chair. Thanks to Parliamentarian of our nation, who finally rose to the occasion to lift Batmanship in Army after 61 years of independence. Britishers’ have left our country, but they have left the germs of slavery in Armed Forces, which need to be brought into light
@Bisikesan Pradhan
“PBOR is authorized to maryy a spinster, unlike officer who is authorized to marry virgin”
[1] Surely not Sir. However, as this is a non military authorization with social ramifications please see clarification at:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/arts/ceriradford/jan08/virginity.htm?cmd=thanks
{Mr. Bean in the comments section has suggested a pragmatic solution}
Also Droit de seigneur, ius primae noctis are both discredited reports.
“Apart from that, officers have been paid with lucrative rank pay, which carry DA and is counted towards fixation of pension, whereas PBOR holds thankless/payless rank.”
[2] As a civilian, I did not know that Sergeants don’t get rank pay. Must get Sir.
Dear friends
You have seen what the civilians have done to the country. They have let down the nation so badly and it is evident from the Bombay blasts and attack on the hotels. The senior police officers were shot like ducks and cats in their cars before they could draw their pistols.They were high lighted for scarifices while Major unni krishnan of NSG who laid diown his life has been forgotten.Every second the bombay police officers were shown on TV screen. We do geel sad for these guys. What type of guys are these ATS men who get shot without firing one round from their pistols. How foolish to venture with pistols which is a useless weapon while others are at you with AK 47.Then tthe NSG commando and Navy commandos and army men arrive to remove the shit left by the cuivilains. The intelligence units of civil administration have let down the nation.They need to be shown the place for letting down the nation. The Home Minister Sivraj patil is more worried about his dress changing it every time he faces a camera. He is busy combing his left out few strands of hair on his empty head. What is the use of having such guys in cabinet who let down the nation. Then as a show they are removed. The PM addressed the nation and looking at him I am sure none could be inspired. e are sorry that country is in the hands of incompetent guys whose sole aim is to say yes to a family. He is great intellectual and economist. But He is meek and not inspiring. But that is not enough. He has to defend the nation from Thugs and crooks. He has surely failed in defending the nation.Innocent Bombites have been killed while the leaders are enjoying in Delhi playing politics. Just look at America. What they have done in few days after 9/11? We are begging Pakistan to hand over guys. Will they? It is a foolish dream. If we are potent, by this time we should have bombed Pakistan left center and right. Whole world feels that India is imptotent.It is better t get killed than getting raped. There is a truth in that.What Pakistan needs is a good kick from which it should not recover at all. If we play these impotent and she male policies I am sure our leaders will lead India to dooms day.At every stage these civilians depend on Army , air force and Navy and once the work is over they get ready to screw the forces. What a sad state?The time has come.
Dr K Prabhakar Rao