Pay commission bonanza for military?

Earlier posts on the subject: Pay commission guesswork for the military and More Pay commission guesswork

Many rumours on the Sixth Central Pay Commission report largesse are doing the rounds in the media. Some of them may indeed be true. Meanwhile, the SCPC report will be put up to the Parliament next week and one hopes that it will made available in the public domain then.

Vivek, in his blogpost today, has already captured the emotions pertaining to the blogposts on the pay commission. The web traffic and the comments attracted by these posts are indeed overwhelming.

Mail Today has a report today that gives out the SCPC recommended pay scales for the military. The truth will be known in a couple of weeks, but many military personnel will find this interesting. Whether it meets their expectations is another matter altogether.

The generous hike for the armed forces incorporates an additional bonanza in the form of Military Service Pay (MSP). The MSP is in the nature of a hardship allowance and has been recommended at 10 percent of the emoluments. However, the service chiefs, army commanders and their equivalents in other services will not be entitled to the MSP. The emoluments for armed forces personnel are: if approved, an army Major will draw Rs 32,000 per month, a full Colonel Rs 45,000 per month, a Brigadier Rs 65,000 per month, a Major General Rs 78,000 per month and a Lieutenant- General a whopping Rs 90,000 per month. Their equivalents in the Navy and Air Force will also be at the same pay scales. [MT]

The scales for various ranks have also been given in the same newspaper. They are–

Lieutenant : 24000 – 900 – 26700

Captain: 27000 – 1000 – 30000

Major: 32000 – 1200 – 40400

Lt Colonel: 42000 – 1500 – 54500

Colonel: 45000 – 2000 – 75000

Brigadier: 65000 – 2500 – 85000

Maj General: 78000 – 3000 – 93000

and so on…

These tidbits in the media may satiate the appetite of many, but there are some who would be interested in the other recommendations of the report. This blogger is of the view that a pay hike, sans organisational reform, is only a short-term solution.

A similar situation had developed after the implementation of the recommendations of the previous pay commission. The euphoria and the excitement of a financial “windfall”, as it is being labeled by the media, will soon die down. The average military officer has been primed by the top brass with huge expectations from the pay commission. One shudders to think the consequences of a military, disillusioned and disappointed by these recommendations.

Sample the emotions of a military officer when Sujan Dutta in The Telegraph recalls an anecdote from the Exercise Brazen Chariots in Rajasthan:

There was a funny conversation I overheard. It was between the major who was the liaison officer and a colleague from a television channel. “Maaan,” the colleague said, “that guy carrying 85km should get a bottle of rum tonight.” Major Ajay Suri, the liaison officer, shot back: “You don’t think he deserves a 10 per cent hike in his salary?” [Telegraph]

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83 Responses to Pay commission bonanza for military?

  1. saa ruk kaan March 22, 2008 at 9:44 pm #

    SPC can take a toss. What the Military is getting and will get is/will be decent. How about these: -

    Rationalisation and improvement of ration so that every grain can be of use.

    Rationalisation and modernisation of B&R and E&M scales (I just heard some col from mes in pune is in the docks for the wrong reasons).

    Army Schools at par with DPS/Amity/ etc.

    Ad hoc/temporary employment of qualified officers wives in support services to bridge in the shortages of officers.

    Service vehicle to all officers (maybe be pooled).

    CSD to store the latest and the best items.

    Regimental fund to be utilised for the right purposes.

    Etc, etc

  2. EIDELON March 22, 2008 at 11:02 pm #

    Saa Ruk Kaan,

    Very innovative name.
    But very original,implementable and excellent ideas.
    I know you are from the armed forces and some people on the blog feel that you dont have intelligent pople.
    Good show and keep it up.

  3. asdf March 23, 2008 at 12:08 pm #

    some body told me they are going make major to col and Lt col in between.
    i wish they do so because you have give him just 8 increments

    42000–1500—54500

  4. Concerned citizen March 23, 2008 at 12:40 pm #

    Dear, I agree with you. It is because of few two stars and above ranked officers that the Services are in the bad state. It is because of such officers that our exit poicies for officers do not exist. because they have taken upon their tiny shoulders the responsibility of defending the country. It is not services’ responsibility it is Government of India’s!!! If this simple fact was understood by our senior lot, today Services would have been got a better bargain from the Pay commision. Why would any body sacrifice his life to get his pay and that too equal to a civilian babu with nil equivalent perks???

  5. sandy March 25, 2008 at 8:19 am #

    congrats for good deal !! I am telling u.I was in service and I really envy u guys.

  6. Praveen March 25, 2008 at 6:00 pm #

    The details are available at the pay commission website where the report can be downloaded. http://india.gov.in/govt/paycommission.php

    The whole pay hike bonanza is a joke, especially for the Armed forces (See the report, page 97 onwards).

  7. ravi March 25, 2008 at 10:25 pm #

    The pay commission is a big joke for the defence services. As on Jan 06 Pay + DP + Rank Pay+ DA was 32550. After pay commission recommendation the pay is 36450 (not including Mil service pay, msp to be included from date of implementation and not retrospective). Risk allowance, specially to the flying branch a mere 14000 and that too taxable. MSP for PBOR just 1000. The EXODUS begins.

  8. zucker March 25, 2008 at 11:18 pm #

    This reportedly ‘big Bonanza’ is nothing but a big joke….. look at this
    A Ltcol drawing 13900 as BP +1600 RP. Add DP of 7550 and DA today of about 9500. Total = 32750.
    Now as per new pay he gets -
    BP 26970 + Grade pay 6600 + MSP 6000. Total = 39570.
    Diff = 6820…
    Without MSP the actual diff is only about 800/-
    Amazing isnt it ! ! ! Wheres the 40 % hike…. even if u take these values with retrospective effect from 1.1.06, the diff would be only the DA of about 20 %. ut U might end up at a lower bracket also.

    So its just some mirage being created…. Guys would get disillusioned too fast. And theres nothing to gloat….. the Army chief gets 90000 + perks. Nobody else in the army!! so its easy to raise that one pay.

    Also a new officer recruit gets about 25000. But a Major Gen gets about 65000. thats with a service of 35 years. The pay diff is about 1:2.5…………. whats this 1:12 increase that the 6cpc talks about….. b/w a sepoy and the Army chief????

  9. shiva March 25, 2008 at 11:26 pm #

    SIXTH PAY COMMISSION…FOR DEFENCE SERVICES???? GOD KNOWS WHAT IS THE AIM? GRADE PAY OF 6600 TO A LTCOL AFTER 13 TO 20 YEARS SERVICE AS COMPARED TO THE SAME GP TO A CIVILIAN OFFICER IN MOD AFTER 7-8 YEARS.. A SCALE LOWER AS COMPARED TO LTCOL SCALE IS GETTING GP OF 7500. AVSC 2 IS AWAITED…AFTER DISMAL PAY PACKAGE TO DEFENCE PERSONNEL.

  10. sandy March 26, 2008 at 5:54 am #

    @pragmatic
    So where does AA 22 say you can not resign. yeah , restriction is there ,but for that IAF has to give the time period under which that person would be relieved.
    These guys are putting PMR. Ask them to put resignation. And then see.

  11. Pragmatic March 26, 2008 at 7:46 am #

    @Sandy:

    The amplification is in Army rules. I don’t have a soft copy but will type it and post it soon if you don’t take my word for it.

  12. tomq March 26, 2008 at 8:12 am #

    AR does not contain any such thing. It is well expected that noone will resign. Because it requires signature of seniors, which no self respecting person will sign for his junior.

  13. EIDELON March 26, 2008 at 11:09 am #

    @Sandy

    Do you think you are the only bright spark.
    There are officers who are desperate to leave hence committed to the cause and have tried all avenues including resignation. But to no avail. If they have approached the court dont you think that they would have been advised by their lawyers who know much more about the law and the loopholes therein as compared to an average joe like you.
    Anyway thanks for the suggestion.

  14. Dave March 29, 2008 at 10:20 pm #

    The sixth pay commission for bulk of the Army personnel has been a big farce. After all the hype about improving the morale and making the forces more lucrative…this has done exactly the opposite.
    I am from the Army and I shudder to think that this will be what I will be earning for the next ten years. I think the only option they are leaving for us soldiers is to resign and go home like beggars after giving the country our best years.

  15. ravi March 30, 2008 at 12:45 am #

    I think these blogs which are ‘anti armed forces’ are rigged. Most comments to which pragmatic and co have no answer seem to have simply vanished from the site. They seem to be anti national too and should be banned.

  16. ken March 30, 2008 at 7:14 am #

    @Ravi Did you read my blogs on ”’expected guess work pay scales sixth pay commission…….” day before yesterday and his replies? When i told him he is stubborn and arrogant he closed that blog since he could not digest my comment . May be he has been kikked very hard by Army and never know may be he was dismissed from service without any servcie benefits and he is just taking out that revenge here !

  17. ken March 30, 2008 at 9:03 am #

    @RAVI,This is what i wrote yesterday for which ”HIGHLY PRAGMATIC” has no reply @MEENA you are right that is why i call him stubborn and arrogant super-duper “HIGHLY PRGMATIC”he is wasting his time ,thouh i feel he is unemployed at the moment and he has nothing else to do and is taking solace in these blogs ,through various Quotes to divert the attention of readers /bloggers to pass his time,when he runs short of ideas.His knowledge of Defence Matters is not only poor but also theoratical in nature [all figures he quote are easily available in various websites ].Since he is no more young now he wont be able to join defence services ‘therefore he cannot have the taste of the pudding ‘ ,as i said before,and he will never know what hardships Defence Personnel and their families undergo,though SUJATA has brough out all the points but Prgamtiac being a “big sas” the story of sas bahu carrys on,big sas can never relent,it is below her diginity, she is alwasy Right and Bahu is always Wrong,because he never agrees to any of the bloggers who are right and say correct things .He again resort to his counter comments or counter questions even on those 100% correct Facts from bloggers thus thinking all those bloggers can be cowed down by him.He is grossly mistaken. He has to change his mind set or else he turns psychopathic and we have to arrange for his treatment otherwise country is bound is to lose another brilliant super duper fellow. He even resort to cheating when any blog is not to his tatse by deleting it,a sahmeful act for a blogger and also put comments on Benami names to supplement his own views/thinking .This type of cheating is not expected from such High profile blogger of his stature.There is nothing in this blog worthwhile and such blogs are bound to die its natural death .

  18. Kalasi (Indian Naval Sailor) March 30, 2008 at 3:06 pm #

    The Pay Commission is an Eye wash, the defence got a raw deal, we deserve it. I I dont understand why officers are cribbing, and men (solders, sailors and airmen)dont????? please put on your thinking cap, citizen of this country. Officers howl that this country is ungrateful to the defence ( i mean only officers, men are scumbags, they deserve kicks and all the corpral punishments and good for nothing, but they should do all the job assigned to them ” including officer’s”) The so called service conditions apply to whom? guys who have seprate room with bathroom and toilet attached with one orderly attached to him or the men who are stacked in brackes and share one loo between 20 (that is called commadrey!!!) with no water. Officers say there is acute shortage for enrollement in officers cader, it is not, it is like our congress party (man it is a family affir, no out siders please without any recommendation from family members). the list is end less, there is no point in enemurating them in this forum, notthing has happned in the past and nothing is going to happen in the future, untill something blows up (after all we are indians)

    Jai hind

  19. EIDELON March 30, 2008 at 5:43 pm #

    @Khalasi,

    Well said but I could’nt understand most of what you are saying or rather I understood only ”Jai Hind”.

  20. ravi March 30, 2008 at 7:37 pm #

    Dear Kalasi, you have your reasons to say what you said. However, most of what you said is not correct. I am a flying branch officer from the IAF. Opportunities are given to all ranks to progress towards becomming a commissioned officer. Most of the aircrew I fly with are either from the ranks or are the children or son in laws of ex rankers. there is no such thing as family affair. As for the comment about toilets etc, conditions are definately improving. Remeber the days of joint families when the entire family lined up for one/ two toilets. Then we progressed to the head of the family having his own toilet. Now even the kids have their own rooms along with attached toilets. The services too are progressing. Take a look at some of our SNCOs messes. They would put some officers messes to shame. As some one rightly said to a certain extent we are ourselves to blame.

  21. Pragmatic March 30, 2008 at 7:54 pm #

    @Kalasi & others:
    This subject has come up earlier as well.
    http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2008/01/19/a-20th-century-organisation-wont-work/

  22. NS Kandari March 31, 2008 at 6:59 pm #

    I think the pay has given his attention towards the officers ranks in the Indian Army. What the commission gave to the Jawan i.e below officer ranks……. ? Nothing. They are spending their life same as before preindependent. They can,t even speak that they are satisfied with this commission or not. Thye are bound by the various rules and regulations. I want to ask from this commission and Mr Chidambaram that Are the officers fighting more than the sepoy/airman/sailor? Are they killing more militant during insurgencies ? There are so many Jawan are sacrifycing their lives day by day for the nation, are they all officers ? No. They are Sepoy/sailor/airman. Why this pay commission making so much different in pay between officers and below officers

  23. bal tahk April 6, 2008 at 8:30 pm #

    It has been our past experience of last 3-4 pay Pay commssions and their implimentions that neither the Govt nor Army Bosses were ever honest in considering PBOR needs/futures and left over at their destiny.If unemployment is not a problem, you may see the deficiency of PBORs more than the Offrs, there are much reasons for getting equal benefits for same work/same risks.This dis-satisfaction perforce them to seek suicide or to kill their seniors/collegues.Now the time has come to have a broad look and think honestly and not making them fool ever.

  24. Jamwal April 6, 2008 at 9:32 pm #

    @ Khalasi/ NS Kandari/ bal tahk

    Personally, I feel that the BIGGEST anomaly in the SCPC for military personnel is the HUGE difference in the MSP. I agree with you’ll that hard military life applies to PBORS as well. If officers get Rs. 6000 as MSP, then PBORs should get Rs. 12000.

    Unfortunately the only thing I can do is pray and hope that at least something is done in respect of PBORs when the representations of the Armed Forces goes to the anomalies cell of the finance ministry.

    IAF and IN PBORs, of course have less to crib. They are fortunate to be serving under some progressive looking commanders who ‘mean’ welfare and believe that entering the third millenium applies to all! Welfare meets (durbar) are genuine and not that the SM stares at all when the CO asks for any points.

  25. sure April 8, 2008 at 8:00 pm #

    I think the commission has given more attention towards the officers in the Indian defence services and other central services. Nothing has ever been thought about PBORs by govt or officers or JCOs, most of the soldiers are so called soldiers only however all of them do the job of personal servants/house hold jobs/domestic helps eg washing und… of officers and their families. They are spending their life same as before preindependence. They can,t even speak that they are not satisfied with this pay commission. Thye are bound by the various rules and regulations. I want to ask from this commission, officers etc that why are they not satisfied with the pay recommended when they don’t have spend a single piasa for the day today chores. there pay must be increased only if they are ready to pay at least five of the soldiers working in their units. the sepoy/airman/sailor/constables Are fighting and getting killed more then officers, they kill more militants during insurgencies. There are so many Jawan are sacrifycing their lives day by day as well as working as servants to the officers. still no body thinks about them. Why this pay commission making so much different in pay between officers and below officers. it has recommended some good things about constables, I don’t when will other soldiers will be freed from the slavery of officers and officers will learn to tAKE care thier daily chores……????

  26. sam April 8, 2008 at 9:16 pm #

    why not ask the competitive exam candidates to quote their expected salary before joining any service including defence services. let the best candidate with least burden to the state get the job.

  27. KM Tiwari April 9, 2008 at 7:55 pm #

    There is no use giving any comment since the persons concerned to review and provide justice to defence personnel especially PBORs are Indian Administrative Services Officers with having the Kundli of Tamed Politicians. These thick leather politicians have no fear from Military Personnel since they know that these helpless lot can not make the Govt bent on their knees as our Bargaining Comrades and various unions affiliated to Communist Parties can do. Knowing this fact well, Administrative Services Babu’s keep assuring politicians about not to worry from Defence personnel and just look after the welfare of IAS who will handle all lots with an Iron hand. Nothing is going to improve by setting of Review Committe of Defence, Finance & Home Secretaries since we are aware of the facts, functions and findings of such committees since 4th CPC recommendations regarding “Same Rank Same Pension”. Right from the submission of report by the 4th CPC, Committee was formed to look into this aspect which went on getting extension by 3 months….3 months… till 5th CPC was notified. And lastly…nothing could come out. The same will be the fate of this Review Committee too. So the Armed Forces Personnel are to keep “Serving the Nation” and let our Babus and Politicians flourish.

  28. ld April 10, 2008 at 1:18 pm #

    When you have gutless Generals,this is what you should expect.How many of them have the courage to resign and demonstrate their concern for the men they command

  29. PS April 10, 2008 at 2:24 pm #

    @id

    Sir,

    [1] Ants, Pants:
    That is unfair/unkind to General, Colonel fellows sitting on steep pyramid pinnacles. Why should stalactites worry about stalagmites* ?

    [2] CO/CEO, General Manager/Plain General:
    How many CEO’s, MDs would resign if workers don’t get a raise ? What’s the difference between a CEO or CO -’kee pharak painda’ ji ? All chaps working for income, period. I know two fellows Navy & Army, twin brothers (genuinely), both CO’s but my niece who is MBA working in MNC calls both these Uncles of hers as CEOs. Why it irritates them no one knows. I try to calm them down with ‘Colonel Special’ whisky or ‘Old Admiral’ Rum or ‘Mutiny’ Rum but they not mollified. So rude. Miltrey fellows get too angry on small points.

    [3] Company Motto:
    It’s each man for himself, first, foremost and always. That Chetwooden fellow was all Queen Victoria style bunkum. {Aajkal chawani / athanni nahin chalti chahe asli chandi ho }

    * How to remember difference between s-tites and s-mites ? Simple – it’s like ants in pants. If the ants go up tha tites go south. My school geography book I recall.

  30. PS April 11, 2008 at 8:54 am #

    @sam
    Very good idea Sir. Thanks.
    Even if the Govt doesn’t ask candidates for a quote perhaps some market survey agency, exit pollwallas or dicey funded NGOs can ask.

  31. Binayaka Acharya April 11, 2008 at 5:29 pm #

    Sir,
    The pay scale out side defence for software personnel and other govt employees is differing much because of service that is wanted by companies from software persons. Similarly the PBORs shall get more pay compared to officers because they fight hard for the country as well as for their lively hood than the officers.More over the PBORS are hard working as per the Army rule,hence pay commission shall favour much to PBORs than the officers ,thanks

  32. murty April 17, 2008 at 9:51 am #

    I read all the points above.Onething the serving and retired armed forces offiers do not realise is,this is the deliberate degradation of armed forces,they gradually down grading the officers level in protocol and pay structure.The successive pay panels are successfully doing this,perhaps with prior briefing from the IAS lot or the elected lot,so that the armed forces will be busy in calculations,frustrations.and they wille happy to have made the allthe 3 chiefs to come to them with begging bowl or with folding hands,to prove civil supremacy.Allthese years the armed forces walked into their trap

  33. Collections April 17, 2008 at 1:33 pm #

    Circular as received on ‘collective representation’ by former miltrymen below for info pl. Seems corny and against the grain, however:
    ———————————
    MISSION: (Pay & Pension extraction)

    11.00 AM – 27 APRIL 2008

    Dear Friends,

    {1} For the above named mission The Veterans of Indian Defence Forces want you to carry the following weapons: -

    A Few Petals of Flowers,
    Complete Silence,
    Look of Complete Determination and Confidence,
    Few Candles and A Match Box in your Hand.

    {2} Vide Email, we had asked all members and Veteran Organisations on our direct emailing list about their views to lodge our protest against 6 CPC in each military station, by lighting candles at the war memorial at that station.

    {3} A vast majority of you have conveyed your approval in very strong words to the suggestion made in Email, a few are not in favour and some who are not against the proposal, felt nothing useful will be achieved by the function we are planning. You all are right in your own way.

    {4} Now that majority are in favour of the suggested action, WE APPEAL to each Veteran Organisation of Indian Armed Forces around the world, and each individual Veteran receiving this email directly or after being redirected to you –

    TO JOIN HANDS
    AND MAKE THE MISSION
    11.00 AM – 27 APRIL 2008
    A GRAND SUCCESS
    IT IS NOW OR NEVER

    {5} And remember – we are not doing it just for ourselves. We are doing it for our colleagues in uniform, whose lips are zipped and hands tied behind. They need your help and we MUST help.

    {6} Each one of you should treat yourself as the Mission Leader and do your utmost to make the mission a grand success.

    {7} United effort is most important for the success of This Mission.

    {8} The Plans of Veterans at Chandigarh and Delhi, including Gurgaon, Noida and other areas of NCR are reproduced below.

    {9} We APPEAL to you to please coordinate in your respective military station and follow the same timings and procedures, as far as possible.

    {10} Please make all out effort to disseminate the contents of this email to maximum number of Indian Veterans all over the world.

    {11} Ensure presence of all types of media, as far as possible.

    {12} In addition Veterans themselves should take photos and record video clips.

    {13} Think of ways of boldly indicating the name of the city where the function is being held.

    {14} We will arrange for the circulation of these through the print media and TV.

    {15} REMEMBER – NO SPEECHES AND NO SLOGAN SHOUTING.

    Only ONE spokes person per location.

    {16} Plan every possible detail in typical military style, including parking of vehicles at likely problem areas like India Gate.

    {17} Not only you, your family members, neighbours and other friends should also be motivated to join in at the function.

    {18} Your motivation skills are under test.
    There can be no greater motivator than the Defence Personnel. When we desire, we can motivate people even to give supreme sacrifice of ones own life.

    {19} With regards and best wishes for A GRAND SUCCESS TO YOU ALL.

    {20} Therefore, if you wish to have any furher clarification or coordination on the subject, please get directly in touch with the following -

    Lt Gen Vijay Oberoi – Email ID – oberoivijay@hotmail.com, Phone – 0172 – 2587642, 2587648.
    Lt Gen Harwant Singh – Email ID – gen_harwant@hotmail.com.
    Maj Gen Satbir Singh – Email ID – satbirsm@yahoo.com, Phone – 0124 – 2461416, 09312404269.

    ————–
    SILENT PROTEST AGAINST RECOMMENDATIONS OF SIXTH PAY COMMISSION
    AT CHANDIGARH

    1. Reference the plan to lodge our protest against the recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission, as mooted by Lt Gen Harwant Singh and circulated through Blogs as well as communicated by e-mails and other media.
    2. A meeting was held at 1100 h at the residence of Gen Harwant Singh and the following decisions were taken: -
    •????????The event for persons living at Chandigarh and surrounding areas would be held at 1100 h on Sunday 27 April at the War Memorial located at the Bougainville Garden in Sector-3, Chandigarh.
    •????????The modalities would be as under:
    - All assemble outside the Garden at 1100 h.
    - All ranks, their spouses and families are requested to attend.
    - Officers and JCO’s are encouraged to wear regimental or any military neck-tie.
    - All ranks should wear medals – miniature medals for officers and full medals for PBOR. Regimental caps may also be worn.
    - All are requested to wear a black band on their left sleeve.
    - The proceedings will be in accordance with military ethos and discipline. There should be no slogan shouting and there will be no speeches.
    - Carrying of placards is discouraged. Static banners may be displayed at the venue, if considered absolutely essential.
    - All are encouraged to carry a candle, a flower or a bunch of flowers, which may be placed at the designated place at the Memorial.
    - After the assembly, at a signal by the organisers, individuals or small groups, not exceeding six, will move inside the Memorial and place their flowers/candles at the designated place and then move to the central area in front of the Memorial. This will be a continuous process. When all have assembled in the central area, a gong will be sounded for all to stand at attention and observe two minutes silence. At the end of two minutes, the gong will be sounded again to signify the end of the silence period. Thereafter, all will disperse in an orderly manner.
    - The media is being invited to attend in strength and cover the event fully.
    3. The overall aim is to convey the concerns of the veterans, through the media, at the grossly anti-services bias of the Pay Commission.
    4. Similar, or locally modified events, at maximum cities and towns, preferably on the same date, may be organized to get maximum impact.
    ————-
    THE PLAN AT DELHI
    From: satbir singh
    Date: 13 Apr 2008 10:24
    Subject: Demonstration By Ex-Servicemen: Sixth Pay Commission
    Dear Friends,

    1. An open letter to all exservicemen to participate in a Demonstration at India Gate on 27 April 2008 from 11 AM to 2 PM to express our anguish on the recommendations of the 6th Pay Commission is enclosed. (Appended below). May I request you all to attend the event positively and encourage other friends in your organizations to participate to request the Govt to meet our genuine demands.

    2. I will be thankful if you kindly give wide publicity for the event. If some of you can help in getting it published/covered in print & electronic media kindly do so as it will assist in making the event a success.

    3. Some of the organisations who have already consented to participate are as under:

    1. Brig RS Gulia, President Ex – Servicemen League.
    2. Col TP Tyagi, President Rashtriya Sainik Sansatha.
    3 Col BK Sharma, President Retired Defence Officer Association.

    4.Admiral Harinder Singh (Retd), President Navy Foundation Delhi Chapter.

    5 Col Mangat Shankar, President Veteran Defences Forces Group.

    6. Lt Gen AKS Chouhan(Retd), President Sainik Foundation Delhi.

    7 Advocate BC Bansal Ex Sgt, (Poorev Sainik Jan Kalayan Samti).

    8. Maj BC Joshi, National Ex Servicemen Coordination Committee.

    9. Col Sohan Singh, Chairman Arun Vihar AWHO RWA, Noida.

    10. Gen Gorakh Nath, Chairman Shahid Smarak Nodia.

    AN OPEN LETTER TO ALL EX –SERVICEMEN OF INDIA
    DEMONSTRATION AT INDIA GATE BY EX-SERVICEMEN OF INDIA
    ON 27 APR 2008
    TO EXPRESS THEIR ANGUISH
    ON THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF 6th PAY COMMISSION

    1. Recommendations of Sixth Pay Commission are damaging to the interest of defence services. Representation of three Chiefs to have separate pay commission was rejected. Their fair and just demand to include members from defence forces was not also agreed to. The assurance given to three chiefs that the concerns of armed forces personnel will be suitably addressed has been belied. Not only the anomalies of the Vth Pay Commission not been addressed, a large number of anomalies in the integrated pay scales, compensation value and other terminal benefits have been introduced.

    One rank one pension, a long awaited demand has been rejected without a justification.

    The pay structure of middle level officers has been ridiculously reduced. The pay commission feels that a Brig with over 30 years of service cannot draw more salary than a joint secretary with seventeen years of service. The MSP is too inadequate to compensate for the hardships of service conditions. Rupees one thousand MSP for the PBORs is grossly inadequate.

    An authorization of MSP prospectively is totally unjustified. Not extending the benefit of MSP to officers of the rank of Maj Gen and above does not stand to any logic.

    2. The recommendations of 6th Pay Commission are very harsh and we all feel very hurt and anguished. A committee consisting of Defence, Home & Finance Secretaries to review the recommendations in respect of the armed forces personnel is likely to be an eye wash. We the veteran soldiers therefore need to rise to the occasion and collectively take up the issue with the Govt.

    3. In order to project our views on the 6th Pay Commission recommendations, it is proposed to hold a demonstration at INDIA GATE on 27 April 2008 from 11 AM to 2 PM. We, all the Ex-Servicemen of India MUST reach the venue to make the demonstration a success.

    4. The Government has failed to meet our genuine demands. Therefore, it should be the bounded duty of all Ex-Servicemen to join in at this hour of our needs and put up to the Govt, a collective voice of all Defence Services Personnel serving and veterans to press for our genuine demands. Must reach India Gate at 11 AM on 27 April 2008.

    With regards,
    Maj Gen Satbir Singh, SM
    Senior Vice President
    Ex-Servicemen Organisation
    (ESMO)
    (0 9312404269, 0124 – 2461416)

  34. kartik April 17, 2008 at 2:25 pm #

    @
    COLLECTIONS
    And remember – we are not doing it just for ourselves. We are doing it for our colleagues in uniform, whose lips are zipped and hands tied behind. They need your help and we MUST help.

    MAY BE LIPS ARE ZIPPED AND HANDS ARE TIED BEHIND
    BUT WHAT IF ALL LT GEN PUT UP THEIR PAPERS AT THE SAME TIME GIVING JUST PERSONAL REASONS DOES NOT IT HAVE ANY EFFECT ON INDIA

  35. ps April 17, 2008 at 5:22 pm #

    @kartik

    [1] Saw the collective annoyance of all those retires.

    [2] Indian Railways & Indian Military both have ~ 1.4 million employees each.

    [3] If TTEs and AC Guards do not get large pay increments or RSP ( ~MSP) no Pragmatic purpose would be served if all the Zonal GMs (see link please) quit in pique or token sympathy.

    [4] Always it is each Rake or Gentleman for himself, first, foremost, always.

    [5] Zindagi ka safar sablok AirForce 1 (or Manmohan 1) mey nahin karte.

    http://www.irfca.org/docs/ir-org-struct.doc

  36. kartik April 17, 2008 at 8:02 pm #

    @
    ps

    sir
    I have been reading your comments earlier also. I am sure you have been in army at senior position. If a senior officer from army equates railway with Indin Army then i have nothing to say. Probably this justify the present condition of army and the mindset senior officers have about problems of army

  37. Vineet April 17, 2008 at 8:55 pm #

    @ Kartik

    Nice to know that there is another ‘chela’ of PS.

    I don’t think he represents the repressive mindset. What he is talking is practical. How many of us have raised our voice that if 1000 is the MSP for PBOR, then we too will take only 1000, unless it is realistically revised for all ranks???

    @ Pragmatic

    “If some of you can help in getting it published/covered in print & electronic media kindly do so as it will assist in making the event a success.”

    Can this be brought to the notice of Sri Sri (1008) Col…sorry Sri Ajai Shukla?

  38. kalasi(indian naval sailor) May 7, 2008 at 10:46 pm #

    will some one please tell me which century am i living in after reading following?

    junior sailors of indian navy has to wash plates of senior sailors?

    junior sailors of indian navy plead guilty as charged, if not face the drama in the name of investigation, uniform get checked for nothing and fresh charges pressed up on, all the rules and regulations are bent up on to get the sailor to the book i.e. guilty as charged (it will sound familiar if u r a history student)

    leave is u r privilege not ur right, so butter me to get ur privilege

    general duties – ration collection, watchman duties at Officers residence, railway / airlines ticket booking, drivers, at madam’s service, loading and unloading of household goods up on officers transfer, this list is very exhaustive

    Government of India is spending crores of rupees for training sailors and these men are employed (exploited) by officers for their personal gains, officers are absolute boss and their authority cannot be questioned and each and every word are to be obeyed, if not it is mutiny.

    Naval Police or provost, these guys are official goons who terrorize other sailors, these guys generally from domestic branch (few combatants and they are bit decent) who boss over much more educated / trained men, these guys police sailors only, like police of pre independent India, who polices over Indians only.

    Sailors of Indian navy feels slaves of free India. This could be changed over night, but at what cost? This is keep sailors at bay.

  39. trusty May 8, 2008 at 9:29 am #

    @kalasi

    what i understand from your outburst is that there is exploitation of sailors in your opinion.

    BTW, the sailors in the Navy are a lot better off than thier counterparts in the other forces. Yes, to some degree I do agree wtih your points but these are more individualistic than organisational.

    And you re complaining of washing plates??? there is a blogger on this site who is actively opposed to the topass entry itself!!

  40. kalasi (indian Naval Sailor) May 8, 2008 at 12:35 pm #

    Trusty, reason for my outburst are as follows:

    firstly – we join forces to serve our nation
    but end up serving a*****e

    secondly – in navy sailors are not permitted to salute ensign (flag) all they have do during colors and sunset is to stand still while piped out. (I always tell fell men we serve with officers not under them, we all serve under the flag and the constitution, this very mindset of mine landed me in deep trouble time and again, frankly speaking i care dame about it)

    thirdly -sailors and their families are treated like third class citizens with in naval fraternity by officers.

    i think this is enough for now.

    sailors of indian navy are not better off than their counterparts they too sail in the same boat, i would like to quote the following as spoken out by Army SM after a monsoon sailing on board OPV class “Safadh vardhi, kala zindagi”

  41. kalasi (indian Naval Sailor) May 8, 2008 at 12:48 pm #

    Hi KM Tiwari

    “These thick leather politicians have no fear from Military Personnel since they know that these helpless lot can not make the Govt bent on their knees as our Bargaining Comrades and various unions affiliated to Communist Parties can do.” as quoted by u

    BJP already planning a strategy for the election 2009 by wooing military personnel to vote?@#$*

    For Information combined strength of military , para military forces including retired personal and family amounts to 7,00,00,000 votes approx that is about 7% of electorate.
    generally, a party forms government which have around 10 – 15 % mandate.

    now tell me buddy can we bend the back of any government or not.

  42. trusty May 8, 2008 at 9:07 pm #

    @kalasi
    your grieviences are as follows:
    1. Not being permitted to salute the flag during colours and sunset.
    2. Sailors and families treated as third class citizens.

    if knowledge serves me right the navy recently celeberated 2006(or 2007?) as year of the naval sailor and naval family respectively. did it not make any difference? can you quote specific examples where sailors feel mistreated by officers?
    the initiatives and achievements of the year of the sailor and naval family can be obtained from the navy website.

    As far as the salute thing is concerned, what about other services?? and is it really such a big deal? it is just a ceremonial in my opinion. most of your grieviences will remain even if tomorrow you are permitted to salute during colours and sunset.

  43. PS May 8, 2008 at 9:15 pm #

    ‘Under Two Ensigns’…

  44. Kaku May 8, 2008 at 9:18 pm #

    Why is it that we become hyper active on issues concerning officers and start behaving like ‘gyaanis’ when it comes to PBOR?

    It is high time that right to equality is practiced in true spirit in the Armed Forces. Respect and honour has to be COMMANDED and not DEMANDED.

  45. kalasi (indian Naval Sailor) May 8, 2008 at 10:14 pm #

    “year of sailors”

    language courses

    computer courses

    few new married accommodations

    what % of sailors got benefited, why all of sudden, this concept came out of blue, i hope u r aware of the reasons.

    saluting national flag is not a privilege, it is a right for all citizen of this country . how could u call, not permitting sailors to salute the very flag for which he would sacrifice his life as, ceremonial. i cant believe it.

    trusty, r u aware of the definition for statistics “Statistics is a lie of first order”. I am fully aware of the rosy pictures painted in Naval web sites about Year of Sailors and Family. The ground reality is, sailors and family started to crib about the Tsunami promotions for officers and on the other hand sailors got very raw deal, sailors promotions got stalled , to pacify them this concept was formulated. bravo zulu for the man who formulated this policy. Sailors are smart enough to smell it!

    How many times officer’s family visits sailor’s family at their residence, do they socialize apart from routine affairs like anniversary, get-to-gather etc.

    all i stand for, is treat sailors with respect, honer their service, do not exploit them, give their due regards.

    jai hind

  46. trusty May 9, 2008 at 7:09 am #

    @kalasi
    1. at colours and sunset it is not the national flag but the naval ensign which is saluted.
    2. would you like to be visited at your residence? many others would say ‘no’ to that. incidentally have you visited/called on any officer till now?

    i was told by a friend that many of the DGMAP projects were concerning navy sailors who faced acute acco shortages being located mainly in big cities. This was stated as a big cause of dissatisfaction amongst sailors when they retired and was based on thier feedback. are married sailors only a small percentage?

    @kaku
    Respect and honour has to be COMMANDED and not DEMANDED

    u r dead right there.

    But “equality” does not exist in the forces at all. In fact the basic principle is heirarchial in nature. It does not exist within officers, within men and definitely not between officers and men.

  47. trusty May 9, 2008 at 7:17 am #

    @kaku
    the chiefs have taken up the issue of MSP of PBORs. in fact, considering the news trickling in, that is the only recommendation that is going to be accepted. So despite all the “hyper activity” concerning officers..precious little is going to be achieved.

    In my opinion MSP should be a % of basic and this % can be reduced as we progress from PBOR to JCO to Officers. The Indian soldier is the finest amongst all in the entire world. And he needs to be adequately compensated.
    Unfortunately, these decisions are handled not by service personnel but by others who have little knowledge of the dynamics of the forces.

  48. Kaku May 9, 2008 at 9:04 pm #

    @ trusty

    Sorry! Actually I was in a different world when I punched in my comments. I was actually in US (though I have never been there). Somebody told me that in the US they have common mess for all ranks. Even the ‘Q’ for food is single and people pick up their plates as per their turn in the ‘Q’ and not as per weight of the brass.

    High time this hierarchy in the fauj is disbanded. After all beyond the cantonment, don’t we follow the ‘Q’ system? If we do not feel small in waiting for our turn in the bank/ bus/ post office/ etc, why should we feel bad in waiting for our turn within the cantonment?

    To put it in pragmatics’s word, the colonial mindset needs an urgent overhaul. Even the ‘angrez’ have changed!

  49. kalasi (indian Naval Sailor) May 10, 2008 at 1:21 am #

    trusty

    u r most welcome, when u visit Tampa, Florida.

    as u quoted:-

    “But “equality” does not exist in the forces at all. In fact the basic principle is heirarchial in nature. It does not exist within officers, within men and definitely not between officers and men”.

    the “equality” i stand for is – treat sailors a citizen of this country, for heaven sake, stop treating them as colonial bosses use to treat indians. For example can u treat a civilian as u treat a sailor, i bet u will land in hospital. The training imparted tells only one thing “follow orders and subordination” that does not mean slavery.

    80% of naval officers exploit sailors, 20% true leaders and they are worshiped literally, every word or request spoken by these officers are obeyed and followed to the last letter. unfortunately few out of these 20 % officers goes the distance, to bring about positive changes. Navy survives because of few good men. trusty u might be one among them.

    to sum it up, i am ex sailor, going great guns in civil life, navy has taught me how management should not be, which is helping me out in my second career.

    I want to see navy changing, it is important to since i have given prime of life to it, i want my efforts to bear fruits.

    jai hind

  50. trusty May 10, 2008 at 7:56 am #

    @kalasi
    thanks for the invitation!

    “Somebody told me that in the US they have common mess for all ranks. Even the ‘Q’ for food is single and people pick up their plates as per their turn in the ‘Q’ and not as per weight of the brass. ”

    maybe you can throw some light on this??

  51. kalasi (indian Naval Sailor) May 11, 2008 at 9:56 am #

    trusty

    common club for enlisted men and officers, not mess, off course there is nothing called separate ‘q’ for officers. good thing about US navy is that officers literally put a gun against smart men’s head and march them to officers academy, indian navy have very few officers like that. US officers doesn’t maintain the social buffer as indian officers do, indian officers are true custodian of colonel legacy, even brits have done away with various traditions, which is not apt in a modern social economic setup. I am sure IN will change, the question is when?

    Jai Hind

  52. ck krishnan May 18, 2008 at 10:45 am #

    The reason for very cheap report on defence forces pay is because of lack of knowledge about the defence forceses. A soldier is bonded with Army act and ready to move at any time any where with say YES. No claim of over time TA/DA/nightduty allce. Had these been considered while calculating paycommission?

  53. trusty June 21, 2008 at 5:48 pm #

    the latest roumer doing the rounds is that the pay commission will be announced on 01 jul.

  54. (mis)trusty June 21, 2008 at 9:40 pm #

    That is not a very positive news! Let us live in the dream land for some more months – 450% hike…will buy a flat at Bandra band stand…next to SRK…will travel in Merc…send kids to Bombay Scottish…have weekend dinner at Taj lands-end…shop at an elite mall without looking at the price tag…trusty, you are hereby awarded president’s displeasure by coming out with such news!

  55. Guru June 21, 2008 at 10:54 pm #

    @Miss Trusty

    What are you a general?
    If you were planning to do all these things with a 450% hike in you current salary then you all must be paid really well and you dont require a pay rise.

    Anyway enjoy in Dreamland.

  56. rajat July 5, 2008 at 2:09 pm #

    is dre ne news of the latest revised report.
    i hope this govt ll give a little better fr some face saving.

  57. raj July 7, 2008 at 11:37 pm #

    hi bloggers
    it was nice so c such a mind blowing blog abt navy,
    no partialty: many of the views abt service conditions are true, pbors too have right to upgrade but r the opportunities n slots enough?
    we must think n try to settle the grievances of these low rank individuals

  58. idiot August 15, 2008 at 12:51 pm #

    so atlast no body thought of pbors of all the force who serve the force in stressful contion

  59. Sumsen August 26, 2008 at 9:28 pm #

    Being an Ex-Airman I also fully support the views of kalasi. there are indeed Royal officers in Armed forces, but most of them bear the qualities the are projected by kalasi. Quality of life of PBOR will never improve if such officers are present in Forces. You will see the efficiency of the Forces fall to a great extent ten years from now.

  60. brandoconscience August 27, 2008 at 7:21 am #

    The Pay Commission Real Issues

    After months of discussions with the decision makers, the pay commission was finally announced. Whether it benefits all of us in the long term interest for the services is highly debatable. In my opinion, the demand for salary increase was not properly made. We focused on mere seeking a hike ‘for a few dollars more’. Whatever the hike was done, I am sure the present rate of inflation and economy downswing will get us back to square one within two years. The real issues were however left out.

    The first issue was, are we at par with the civil servants? The Times of India reported that a civil servant will get double the salary compared to his Defence counterpart with same age and experience in 14 Years. Also a Defence officer after putting in 30 Years of service will get 30 Lakhs less than his civil service counterpart with same service period.

    Now this report is alarming. The country remembers us only during war. A Colonel sacrificed his life with two soldiers this weekend amidst heavy fighting at J & K. I was partying at a pub on leave and felt guilty watching the news on TV, but I could notice the next generation was not bothered. They were flicking the channel for update on a program ‘The Big Boss’ . The crowd was feeling sorry for the participant who was voted out from the Big Boss and not the Colonel who died fighting for the country . The point I wish to bring out is, this insensitivity to own officers and jawans, who is to be blamed for it . The Government bureaucracy or the media or the services themselves or the blame is of the Youth.

    I merely seek an explanation that why a class of bureaucracy is dictating terms to us, why are they treating us like second rate citizen that youth of this country do not find it important enough to even hear a news of a Colonel’s Death. What right they have to make us so unimportant? Is this fair that Armed Forces have to be treated like second fiddle? Why was there no representatives in Pay Commission to bring out concerns of middle rung officers till Lt Col /Jawans/Ex Servicemen/Widows. They form the bulk of forces.

    The issue is not why we haven’t got enough, the issue is why we haven’t got equal to IAS /IPS counterparts? If the country economy is bad, let us all share the burden. Why only services have to bear the brunt of reasons of strain on the Country economy. What great work a Babu is doing in IAS than a soldier. Even a traffic Policeman who is busy making easy money from ladies /kids on traffic point is earning Rs 950 more in white money than the salary of a Jawan. Hence the issues of pay commission should have been only one point agenda that IAS/IPS/ Defence service pay to be equal even if it is pea nuts or a few rupees more .

    The next point is the promotion schemes. 90 to 100 percent civil servants or IPS reach from an Under secretary to Deputy Secretary to Joint Secretary to Secretary . Same is in IPS, from a probationer to ACP to Collector to Div Commissioners. In Defence service 75 percent gets washed out at rank of Lt Col. Balance keeps dwindling till last one and the only one. AV Sing Part 2 will get some semblance but not much. It will not be enough to divert the next generation in filling NDA forms, from filling IAS/IPS forms. The result will be that we will have bright lots making selfish but realistic choices. The call for duty will not be heard in many young minds due to the manner Defence services are being reduced as second fiddle to IAS/IPS.

    I also wish to however acknowledge the counter point of salary increase what ever it was. We must justify that bit increase with our productive work. We were only harping that we need a salary equal to the corporate world. We forget that the corporate world will not tolerate the baggage of corrupt/ inefficient / time wasters which are there in our organization. The civilians in Depots/BaseWksp/ MES and many officers especially after super secession having no self respect and not looking forward to next rank are the biggest culprits. If we all take credit for Vikram Batra sacrifice in the Kargil war or the Colonel sacrifice this weekend, We have to carry these other culprits of our organization also on our shoulders, who are corrupt, fraud and non productive to the organization. We have to justify to the country that the rise in pay for Defence services was less, as majority of the Officers and Other Ranks are worthy earners for more recognition with pay as one of the incentives. The country should treat us as worthy first rate citizens.

    To conclude, the pay rise is immaterial what ever it was, as first we are professionals and next we will be in the same boat within two years. The issues are assured service ranks and same status with IAS/ IPS. The real issue is getting our due as first rate citizens in a democracy. The main issue is we are no less than IAS/IPS. These are the issues that will challenge the intake in Defence Service in coming years. With all due regards to Para Military Services , what happened to them? What happened to one rank one pay for Ex Servicemen? What happened to the Widows? They all are worse than us. These all issues could have been answered better had IAS lobby allowed a service representative to be at par with them in deciding the salary structure. I think that is where our political masters will have to play an important role to unshackle the services from IAS lobby. The question is will it happen? Maybe we can learn our lessons for ‘next Kirinji Flower’ which comes out once in a while after many years ie the pay commission.

  61. gautam Thapar November 27, 2008 at 11:35 am #

    Hi….. I have being following discussion on this blog for last 5 months about the debate and the core issue of society not keen to join army and on top of that IAS and Babus not given its due to the forces.

    Well after yesterday direct attach to the rich, financial centre and financial capital of India, for the first time they have come in the open and attacked us. This is the cost we are paying for not giving its due he Army … Just think if there is no strong man guarding or doors i.e. borders ,Sea and air…………… more brothers , sisters friends will die cause we think what’s the role of army.

    Well lets see are we still so selfish for our own Security ????????

  62. martin April 26, 2012 at 6:44 am #

    we indian citizens we are treared like beggars in our own country by our rulers
    martin

  63. martin April 26, 2012 at 6:44 am #

    no more comments

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